Author Topic: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..  (Read 137929 times)

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Offline felix

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2005, 08:57:27 AM »
G.D. E. The photo is great ! Cant tell you how much I enjoyed it. F.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2005, 09:32:15 AM »
Thanks! This is the only other one I've been able to find of them standing anywhere near each other (circa 1882)



full photo (many German royalties I don't know)
women from left: Victoria Milford-Haven, duchess of Connaught, Ella, Irene (behind man), Moretta and Vicky

men include: Duke of Connaught (behind wife), Crown Prince Carlos of Portugal (blond man next to Ella), Wilhelm I (next to Carlos), Willy, GD Louis, Fritz and Affie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2005, 01:47:22 PM »
You are the source of all sources!  :) Thanks GDella. Even young Wilhelm looks good here and Vicky and Fritz a stunning couple.
At the time of the photo at Henry's wedding, both Ella and Wilhelm were probably slighty uncomfortable about their feelings. Who wouldn't be? I suspect part of Ella's "dislike" of him was in part an overcompensation in order to shield any sense of romantic feelings she might have held at one time.
By the by, is there any evidence that Wilhelms cousins  ever saw him without a shirt and viewed his deformed arm? Did Ella or anyone ever comment?
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bluetoria

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2005, 04:45:07 PM »
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I suspect part of Ella's "dislike" of him was in part an overcompensation in order to shield any sense of romantic feelings she might have held at one time.


Surely not!  :) I thought Victoria said that Ella thought him 'absolutely horrid'...even as a little boy she was never that fond of him, was she?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bluetoria »

Offline TJ Jones

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2005, 09:49:45 PM »
How would a remarriage of a royal lady been seen? I would have liked to see Ella remarry a penniless German prince. Did this thought of remarriage ever cross her mind? She was still relatively young and, beautifull when Sergie was killed. I don't have a lot of information on Ella but I understand that many people here do. Where can I find references to her personal life?
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Offline Georgiy

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2005, 04:18:52 PM »
However, had she wished to remarry, she would have been able to in the Orthodox Church, being a widow. Remarriage is also allowed for divorced people (though at the discretion of the Bishop so in some jurisdictions it is easier than others), but in all, one can only be married 3 times - and that would be highly unusual. Marriage in the Orthodox Church should be considered as being married for life, and is a sacred ceremony - a sacrement of the Church, not something to be entered into lightly.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2005, 08:22:33 PM »
from over on the Vicky & Dona thread on the Hohenzollerns--I'm moving it so we can discuss without diverting the V/D discussion

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Given how sour Vicky and Dona's relationship turned later, I find it ironic that Vicky was the one who pushed Willy towards marrying her in the first place. Of course Willy had his heart set on Ella, and when Vicky found out, she wrote 'I am not to have the dream realised in which I often indulged and which had become the wish of my heart.' --in regards to Dona!  ::)

Years later, when Willy's own grandson was facing the prospect of having to choose duty over love, Willy wrote to him, 'You will no doubt well know that only few soverigns in the world are lucky enough to be able to marry the object of their first love. For example, in my youth exactly the same thing happened to me, when my parents refused to allow me to marry my cousin Ella of Hesse--a relationship which my grandmother Kaiserin Augusta especially fostered and which I had begged my parents from the bottom of my heart to permit. My heart bleeding, I obeyed the severe command of duty.'

Apparently Vicky felt Willy and Ella were 'too closely related' and the fear that Haemophilia would be passed down to a potential Kaiser of Germany was always at the back of her mind. However, none of these arguments came up when Heinrich married Irene--so go figure. I suppose by that time it wasn't likely that any of H and I's sons would inherit the throne...


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Apparently Vicky would get annoyed as she felt that Alice was encourging Willy towards Ella. Alice herself seemed quite pleased about Willy's feelings, writing letters proudly boasting that Willy wished to marry Ella...  This leads me to believe Ella couldn't have disliked Willy that much (at the time anyway)...because why would Alice say and do things to embarass her daughter, and make her feel uncomfortable? (And at one point Vicky was sure that it was Victoria that Willy wanted to marry! Could you imagine!  ;D) Also, since Vicky seemed to have no problem cutting Willy down with remarks about no woman wanting him with his disabled arm, when he became too full of himself--I couldn't imagine her having a problem with speaking plainly about Ella simply not wanting to marry him!


Quote

Another quote I thought would be of interest:

Willy to Vicky in 1875 (when Ella was only 11)

'Cousins look very nice, Victoria full of mirth, had a very good complexion; Ella--who is my special pet--is much grown and is exceedingly beautiful, in fact she is the most beautiful girl I ever saw. She is more quiet than Victoria ( ;D) but still very intelligent. She and I both love eachother warmly... I think that if God grants that I may live till then I shall make her my bride once you allow it.'

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline Caleb

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2005, 11:06:47 AM »
I read that not many of the relatives particularly like Wilhelm. In Charlotte Zeepvat's book "The Camera & the Tsars" the kaiser is described as "an inconvientent relative"...but the alliances (and family ties) forced them to be at least cordial with the kaiser.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2005, 08:22:44 AM »
On the picture taken on the marriage of Prince Heinrich and Princess Irene. I don't think it was Ella standing next to Wilhelm, but his own sister Princess Charlotte.

The cousins do look like each other. I match that picture with another taken on Friedrichhof of the brothers and sisters of the Kaiser Whilhelm II, and came to that conclusion. No I think Ella would have been standing on the other side of the alter, with Victoria, Alix and their father, Grand Duke Ludwig.

bluetoria

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2005, 08:42:27 AM »
Have you noticed on the very famous picture of all the relatives taken at Coburg in 1894, how the Kaiser appears to be looking up at Ella who is standing a long way from him? Or is that my imagination?  :-/

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2005, 08:55:00 AM »
Yes I agree that Wilhelm is looking at the direction of Ella, but as you say it was a long distance away from him, so he could have been looking at any of his cousins standing in that direction. Anyhow he could well be stealing a glance at Ella, whose photo (next to another of his fixation, his Aunt Alix) was put in his study.


Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2005, 09:02:24 AM »
On the subject of Ella & Wilhelm, it was a non-starter.

Ella was not in love with him and most likely wouldn't have married him. If she had, I think he would have been more intimated by her than Dona. Ella would have had the power to dabble in politics had she been more ambitious (a situation which would have had the envy of Vicky, who was denied her all her life). And yet I think Wilhelm may have turned up a better man had he married Ella, who would not have put up with the nonsense Dona had to endure.

I know too many "could have's"...

Offline gem_10

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2005, 12:59:31 AM »
I believe Ella would have become a good Empress had she married Willy, and the whole German Empire will not crumble like that. Willy's aggresiveness resulted World War I and I don't think Ella would have tolerated Willy's aggressiveness. She had a great deal of influence over him when they were young and he loves her so much. I think his love for her is enough so that he will listen to her advices. NOt only that, Ella's personality perfectly balances that of Willy's and she could have turned him into a very good man  ;D . By the way, I didn't know that Vicky is against the idea of Willy marrying Ella. She didn't like Ella, did she?

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2005, 03:56:09 AM »
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I believe Ella would have become a good Empress had she married Willy, and the whole German Empire will not crumble like that. Willy's aggresiveness resulted World War I and I don't think Ella would have tolerated Willy's aggressiveness. She had a great deal of influence over him when they were young and he loves her so much. I think his love for her is enough so that he will listen to her advices. NOt only that, Ella's personality perfectly balances that of Willy's and she could have turned him into a very good man  ;D . By the way, I didn't know that Vicky is against the idea of Willy marrying Ella. She didn't like Ella, did she?


I have to agree with what you've just said, Lunarmaiden, in regards to Willy being a changed man, if he had been allowed to marry his Ella! He wrote about her so tenderly, you have to stop for a second and think...'Is this Kaiser Wilhelm II, the All Highest talking?'  ;D On the subject of Vicky and Ella...from what I could gather, I don't think she disliked Ella personally, she seemed to admire Victoria more (and probably would have enjoyed having her as a daughter in law, just think of what their conversations would be like!) but all I've read leads me to believe it was the idea of Willy marrying his first cousin that Vicky disliked, not Ella herself.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2005, 07:56:14 AM »
I don't know if WW1 would've been prevented--there were so many factors in so many different nations. However, I think that Wilhelm's character definitely would've developed differently and, with her strong personality and the more liberal tendencies from the Hessian court, may have helped steer Wilhelm away from some of the conservative influences. Then again, Ella absorbed some of Serge's conservative views and proved fairly submissive to him and his personality. The difference could've lain in the fact that Wilhem positively adored her (writing by his own account very sappy poetry to her while a student at Bonn) while Serge's feelings--and their true relationship-- still remain somewhat of a mystery.

Another interesting aspects lies in the fact that if Ella had married Wilhem, would Alix have married Nicholas? They not only met through her visits to Ella but she was the conduit between them during the painful years of indecision. I don't think that Alix would've married Eddy--Ella and her other siblings weren't keen on it--but she may have ended up reigning in a small duchy in Germany and had a much more peaceful life.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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