Author Topic: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..  (Read 139875 times)

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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #90 on: May 19, 2006, 12:08:26 PM »
Some tension did exist, very true. And Ellla was reasonably satisfied, but I don't she ever found what she was looking for at the time the marriage started. She may have had all the perks of being the wife of a grand duke, but these may have meant little to her as time went by. She wanted to be fulfilled in a deeper way, one that might have happened had she made a marriage elsewhere. So her marriage wasn't completely unhappy, but it wasn't really fulfilling.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #91 on: May 19, 2006, 09:38:53 PM »
Yes...although it was be jarring of Ella's pride to have all these relatives speculating about her marriage. Pitying glances shot at her direction with gossiping at every turn during the social events. The real reson why she was unable to have a baby, and Serge's alleged homosexual tendencies and minions. On top of that, to accept a pair of children into her life, who were daily reminders of what she cannot have. I can relate why it was hard for Ella to be warm towards them. Yet when Serge died, she opened herself again for a new life and never looked back. That is why all of us wonder if Ella had picked Willy or Fritz, would she had been so drawn to religion ? My speculation is that most likely not... :-?

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #92 on: May 24, 2006, 05:17:29 PM »
Well, I am not sure if she would have turned to religion, although that was perhaps something that was just inherent in her. She most likely did find it hard, the attitudes of relatives. She knew they didn't view her marriage as happy nor did it seem so to outsiders, even if she found happiness in it, a little bit. It was not traditional happiness, nor a traditional marriage. She had to turn to something following the death of her husband, and the removal of any meaning she had. But perhaps she was one of those spiritual people anyway, no matter who she married, although married to the Baden Prince she might never have gotten the chance to express too much interest in Religion, at all.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #93 on: May 24, 2006, 09:59:20 PM »
Yes I agree, although had she married Fritz or Willy, she might have some children to take her mind off religion a bit. However having said that, Ella was the moxt spiritual of Alice's daughters. Alice herself was attracted to the deeper meaning of life in her later years, and so was Ella's niece Alice (VMF's daughter). So I think the chances are she would be involved in some way, but not all the way as she dod as a nun... :-?

Offline CatherineNY

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #94 on: May 25, 2006, 12:09:23 PM »
Perhaps I'm letting myself be influenced by Maria Pavlovna's account of Ella, but I have the sense that she had a cold side, very much enjoyed the worldly side of being married to a Grand Duke, and might well have been frustrated at the court of Baden. She was not particularly warm towards Maria and her brother, and she may not have been a very warm mother. I certainly acknowledge her holiness and her courage at the end of her life, but that is a different matter from assuming she would have been happy as the wife of Fritz of Baden, with a big family, rather than what she got with Serge.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #95 on: May 25, 2006, 12:32:41 PM »
Yes I agree you must be. As VMH once said about Alix to Ella "If only you can look into her soul !" Ella was a sensative girl and was attracted to the needy side of Serge. He always had a haunted side. Around the time of his marriage he said he wanted to get marry early since he was convinced he was going to die young (perhaps looking at what happen to his father had scarred him). Ella felt protective of him as she saw how much he suffered at being made fun of by his brothers because he had to wear a corset for his back. Ella was very warm to children in general and both Greek Minny and Felix Yussopov remembered the kindness she shown them. It should be also noted that Dimitri did not seem to hold any grudges against Ella and they seemed to get on fine. Greek Minny said of her niece Marie of being spolit and selfish at times, perhaps Ella reacted to that. However one must agree that the feelings of a childless woman faced with two children, who were loved by her husband in every way. It must be a mockery to someone as proud as Ella. However after Serge went, Ella repented her jealousy and apologized to Marie (she wrote that in her memoirs). When Ella fixed Marie with Prince Wilhelm of Sweden. She told her to think carefully before going her answer. Marie changed her mind but was warned by the trouble maker Irene (hardly Ella's fault). It was that marriage that guarentee her future. When Marie got broke and needed help it was the Swedish Royal Family that came to her resure. A finally blessing from Ella... :P

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #96 on: May 25, 2006, 02:12:35 PM »
Ella also gave her a number of her jewels when she entered the convent--including her wonderful emerald kokoshnik tiara--which Marie was later able to sell when she needed money. The two also had a bit of a rapprochment when Marie was older and perhaps things were less painful--Marie was awfully attached to her father and rather resentful of Serge and Ella. A very complex relationship.

Ella was also a bit of a mother to her brother Ernie. It is often assumed that Alix was his favorite but based on writings, including his memoirs, it seems he was most devoted to Ella, even naming his only daughter after her. Perhaps it is a coincidence but in many family photos the two (Ernie and Ella) are often nearby each other.

It seems that the only younger person that Ella had serious problems with was Marie, though perhaps she also did better with boys than girls--her main admirers seem to have been of the opposite sex--Felix, Dmitri, Ernie, Alexander Mikhailovich.
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #97 on: May 25, 2006, 09:28:10 PM »
Yes, however you must remember that both Serge and Ella were very let down by Paul marrying his mistress. So the seperation was necessary by his exile. Indeed Ella was a favourite of Ernie, but she was part parent and part sibling (VMH was almost a part and Alicky entirely a sibling). Very sensative himself, it would be natural for him to be close to Ella who was of the same temperment.

I don't she only favoured boys, both Greek Minny and Missy were fans of Ella. As these two girls represent two different styles (tomboyish and girly). You can see Ella's appeal is quite across the board.

Offline TampaBay

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #98 on: May 26, 2006, 06:12:06 AM »
Missy was a big fan of Ella too!

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Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #99 on: May 26, 2006, 07:14:45 AM »
Hi :) are Ernies memoirs published? Would love to read what he wrote about Ella and Alix!!
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #100 on: May 26, 2006, 11:05:44 AM »
Unfortunately not... :( Although his letters to the Kaiser I heard were in Darmstadt.  ::)

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #101 on: September 16, 2006, 02:47:32 PM »
when did Willy and Ella actually see each other for the last time? Did Willy attend the services for her assasinated husband? thanks.
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Offline Helen

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #102 on: September 16, 2006, 03:34:29 PM »
Hi :) are Ernies memoirs published? Would love to read what he wrote about Ella and Alix!!
Yes, they are:  Erinnertes by Ernst Ludwig, Grossherzog von Hessen und bei Rhein; Eduard Roether Verlag, 1983 [in German].
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #103 on: September 16, 2006, 03:42:37 PM »
when did Willy and Ella actually see each other for the last time? Did Willy attend the services for her assasinated husband? thanks.

I'm not sure when they last met. He didn't attend the services for Serge. I think Henry might've represented him but I'm not sure.
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Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #104 on: September 16, 2006, 05:19:29 PM »
. Just so poignant, the thought of Wilhelm keeping that picture on his desk his whole life.  :'(

I am thinking that with all the negative attitudes about Dona, it seems to me a normal compensation to be overly "lovely" and subservient attitude towards her husband when she had his "love" for Ella shoved in her face their whole married life.
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