Author Topic: Princess de Lamballe  (Read 96420 times)

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Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #120 on: June 12, 2007, 10:07:58 AM »
I think I read that apparently she once fainted at the sight of a lobster (?) in a painting!
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Offline Martyn

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #121 on: June 12, 2007, 10:50:14 AM »
It is absolutely fair to say that the Princesse certainly showed herself to be a true friend to MA in staying with the beleaguered Queen when she could so easily have done as the others, and saved herself.

She returned from safe exile in order to be of assistance to the the RF in their hour of need, in sharp contrast to the Polignac clan, whose rise to favour had resulted in cooler relations between MA and the Princesse and who, having benefitted so much from the Queen's favour, lost no time in saving their sorry hides by fleeing abroad.

It is impossible to imagine what that period of time must have been like for them all; the uncertainty of life in the Tuileries, the botched flight to Varennes and then close confinement for all - the stress and fear must have been dreadful.

The death of the Princesse was needless and brutal, whatever from it took.  But as in the cases of Mlle Schneider and Countess Hendrikova, devotion to duty and friendship with royalty can sometimes result in tragic consequences, regrettably.
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Offline José

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #122 on: June 12, 2007, 11:03:13 AM »
Can someone post a picture of her husband ?
I've never seen one.
Thanks in advance.

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #123 on: June 12, 2007, 04:56:19 PM »
There's a family group on page three of this thread, which shows him - they're all drinking cocoa!  :)
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #124 on: June 12, 2007, 07:45:40 PM »
I think there is only one book on her in English right ?  ???

Offline Richelieu00

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #125 on: June 13, 2007, 03:00:50 AM »
Hi All,

I read that there is dispute over her death some say that her body was left untouched apart from the decapitation, whilst others say the poor women was subjected to the most horrific torture, does anyone know if there is a definitive on the matter? I realise that with history there rarely is?

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #126 on: June 13, 2007, 04:26:40 AM »
I think the version I heard was that she was dead before they tore her body apart.  ???

Offline Mari

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #127 on: June 13, 2007, 04:39:39 AM »
I think Real Anastasia posted  earilier that the National Archives in Paris went into complete detail about her death. It was horrible from everything I have read.
 Some definitive  sources I read are the Memoirs of Madame Campan who was with MA constantly and saw a lot of the Princess Lamballe.. which is in English on the Internet and goes into great deatail on Marie Aantoinette and Princess Lamballe and the others. Also Vigee Le Brun whose Memoirs are in English on the Internet has a section on both of these Women and some great stories on MA(She painted the Princess Lamballe too). Then the Memoirs of the Countess Polignac and last there are some letters of Madame Elizabeth. The last two I will read when I can.

And I am sure there are other that can suggest some other  great reputable books. ::)

Offline Richelieu00

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #128 on: June 13, 2007, 09:49:55 AM »
Thanks Eric and Mari!

I am reading Madame Campan's memoirs currently. I will look forward however, to hearing what the other memoirs have to say. It seems like such an unjust end for this honourable woman.

dolgoruky18

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #129 on: August 30, 2007, 02:31:25 PM »
For those interested  -  as am I  -  in establishing the truth (however dreadful or however 'mundane') about the life and death of Madame de Lamballe, there are, it appears, no recent biographies in English. There are, however, two in French: "La princesse de Lamballe" 2001 by Francois de Lescure Mathurin and "La princesse de Lamballe: mourir pour la reine" by Michel de Decker published in 1999. Both seem difficult to obtain.

There is a study in English in "Glory and Terror: Seven Deaths Under the French Revolution" by Antoine de Baecque and Charlotte Mandel published in 2001 (paperback 2002) which deals with the princess' death. I have the latter.

On the continuing disagreements over the exact details of what was said and done inside and outside the Prison of Petite La Force in September 1792. you have much material to choose from in the many biographies of Marie-Antoinette and her family. Madame de Lamballe, according to the political bias of authors, either died quickly or was subjected to many outrages when semi-conscious, unconscious or dead. I possess a book published in 1908 by B.C. Hardy which describes some of the atrocities, but refuses to detail others. Something definitely happened which lurked in the minds of many people for years afterwards. One of the alleged murderers was actually kept under permanent surveillance by Napoleon.

Madame Tussaud confirmed that she was forced to make a cast of Madame de Lamballe's head.

For those who doubt that the princess' hair was dressed and curled after death, read the account by Louis XVI's valet Clery who saw the head on a pike through a window at the Temple. A sketch of Madame de Lamballe made in the courtyard of Petite La Force by F. Gabriel four hours before her death still exists. It clearly shows that her hair was not curled.

Offline Mari

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #130 on: August 31, 2007, 04:55:30 AM »
The Princess Lamballe is a very interesting Person. We actually had a post going on her  somewhere. I hadn't actually considered whether her Hair was curled but in Prison I doubt she was able to keep her usual blonde elegance going. (reference Vigee Le Brun) as to the atrocities someone on the other Post mentioned that the French Archives had a detailed description of the atrocities. As you seem to have read on this subject quite a bit what is your opinion about the atrocities. Do you think She was dead or semi-conscious when all this happened?

dolgoruky18

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #131 on: August 31, 2007, 05:36:32 AM »
Thanks for your reply. I am still trying sort out fact from fiction  -  or 'wishful' thinking. I'm afraid by temperament I've always been a pessimist rather than an optimist where human nature is concerned and so I tend to think the worst happened in this case.

Axel von Fersen reported within days that she had suffered for eight hours because they kept on reviving her. Others say that she was hit on the side of her forehead by a sabre as she emerged from the prison door. This knocked off her hat or cap and dislodged her hair which had been tied back and rolled up in a simple 'chignon' (as I think it is called). Other blows followed which may or may not have rendered her unconscious. What followed has been the subject of heated debate ever since. The debate is important because it must affect the way in which the revolution is viewed today.

One should remember, I feel, that Madame de Lamballe was far from being the only woman who was murdered during the September Massacres. Female prisoners were raped and butchered and Christopher Hibbert in his book describes the slow death by gunpowder of one young woman accused of wounding an abusive lover. In addition, a group of young boys, some as young as eight, were also slaughtered.

My 1908 book speaks specifically of the register of the Petite La Force Prison where the name of the Princesse de Lamballe is the only one to have been underlined after her arrival. Clearly, she was being marked out for special attention.

I could go into much more detail about this lady, but this would probably bore you to tears. Suffice to say that there are several versions of what became of her remains. One states that her head was buried secretly in a children's cemetery and that the site has been lost. Another says that in return for huge bribes her father-in-law, the Duc de Penthievre, had her conveyed to his family vault at Dreux. Certainly they are not there today. All the bodies of the Bourbon-Toulouse family were disinterred by revolutionaries within the following year or so and flung onto the highway.

As Simon Schama asks in his book "Citizens", why was the revolution so violent ?


Offline Mari

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #132 on: August 31, 2007, 07:37:44 AM »
No, you could never bore me with details on the Revolution. What is the 1908 book you refer to? The Children that were massacred ....were they in prison with Parents and were they Nobility?  Is Axel von Fersen's report  on the Web? Or is it in a Book? I am re-reading a lot of material in this era. I have concentrated on Madame Campan, Vigee Le Brun and now I am looking at Madame Du Barry's memoirs. I would like to find some of the material that you have listed.

I personally have a strong Socio-Economic viewpoint on Revolutions in general but I could agree with Neo-Conservative's which favor a Revolution is caused by comprehensive factors in the French one.  The Violence of this Revolution though has always been an odd mix of sadism and envy fronted with idealism. It ranges from the Marquis De Sade who escapes the Bastille and commands a group of Soldiers to Philosophers! The sad part to me is that people like the Princess Lamballe, a gentle soul did nothing but practiced Charity according to her Father-in-law and those that knew her and not false Charity either.

dolgoruky18

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #133 on: August 31, 2007, 11:48:25 AM »
I'm so sorry. I forgot that I mentioned the 1908 book on another Topic thread. The title is "The Princesse de Lamballe  -  A Biography" by B.C. Hardy pub. Constable London 1908. It has long been out of print. I am currently chasing another which, I've been told, was published around 1929.

While I agree with you that many revolutions have their socio-economic aspects, it is a curious fact that they often occur when things are getting better. The atrocities which took place in France between 1792 and 1794 are explicable in terms of 'panic' and also what has been termed "the theare of the Revolution." Daniel Arasse in his study of the guillotine emphasises this. He points out that the faces of those in the tumbrils were closely scrutinized by spectators who were deeply interested in trying to assess "the true faces" of those about to die. He illustrates this with a print of the severed head of General Custine entitled "The True Face of Custine." In other words, what seems to be going on here is an attempt to find and recognise the 'truth' about humanity. So they found it in Death, the great equalizer.

The child prisoners who were murdered during the September Massacres, were street children or vagabonds arrested for petty theft. The women were mostly prostitutes with a sprinkling of the well-born such as Mlle. de Sombreuil, daughter of the Governor of Les Invalides, who was forced to drink a glass of warm blood to save her father's life. Elsewhere the victims were senior clergy. All of these poor folk were killed because they were seen as an impure 'fifth column' who, it was said, would lead a counter-revolution when the Duke of Brunswick's troops marched on Paris.

Looking back on this, I feel it's a bit muddled. Sorry about that.

Offline Mari

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Re: Princess de Lamballe
« Reply #134 on: September 03, 2007, 03:22:18 AM »
Quote
There are, however, two in French: "La princesse de Lamballe" 2001 by Francois de Lescure Mathurin and "La princesse de Lamballe: mourir pour la reine" by Michel de Decker published in 1999. Both seem difficult to obtain.
     



I found this on Google books:

The Memoirs of the Baroness Cecile de Courtot: Lady-in-waiting to the Princess de Lamballe ...
By Moritz Leopold Ludolf von Kaisenberg, C�ecile de Courtot, Anna Gottliebe Luise Wilhelmine (von Lo�e) von Alvensleben, Jessie Haynes
   
Have you read this?