Princess Leonor and Infanta Sofia of Spain

[Grand_Duke]

The official announcement:

http://www.casareal.es/casareal/home.html

[PssMarieAmelie]

Congratulations to TRH. I hope they name her Leonor--such a pretty name.....


Now we only have to wait for Mette-Marit, Sophie of Wessex and Clare of Belgium....

[Marlene]

They said on another forum that it will be Leonor. It's apparently the Spanish/Portuguese version of Eleanor. I like Eleanor but I don't like Leonor. It's not up to me though.   There are slight variations but the basic meaning is 'light'. It's apparently pronounced lay-on-OR.

There was buzz yesterday about a room in the hospital being made ready for Letitzia--I guess they were right. I wonder if it was a c-section?

I was pulling for something like Pilar or Isabella but it apparently does have royal and ethnic connections:

Leonor of Aragon- Queen of Navarre

Infanta Leonor of Castille- Queen of Portugal and France

I wonder how soon the speculation about Baby Boy Glucksburg and the little Infanta will begin?  

Isabella is Italian.  Isabel is Spanish

[Marlene]

Infanta Leonor of Spain,most probable the Heir presumptive as Spain is to change the Salic Law under the present government.In that case any speculation in connection with our mistery name Glücksburg boy would be just that,speculation.It's a bit of a name to get used too,Leonor,but say it repetitively and it's a familiar name in no time........

Spain does not have Salic law.  The succession law is based on male primogeniture (which means sons before daughters, brothers before sisters).  Salic law means males only.  Changing the law will mean changing the constitution, and it is a complicated procedure that will take two consecutive govts and a referendum - which would mean a change would not happen for at least 5 to 7 years

[Marlene]

Quite unfair I say ! Even though I am a man...They should do with Sweden and Belgium have done.

Sweden was the first to change in 1980  - from Salic to first born regardless of sex.  The Netherlands was actually the next to change their law - from male primogeniture to first born.   Norway moved from salic to equal rights, but the law affected princesses born after 1990.  (Martha Louise was inserted into the succession after her brother.)   Belgium went from Salic law to first born regardless of sex.  Luxembourg, for example, is semi-Salic, meaning all the men come first.
Britain and Denmark are also male primogeniture - and changing the law in the UK would be rather complicated = and at this time there are no plans to change the law.

[Marlene]

I wonder what the name wil be. Here are some of the names in the RF so far:

Infanta Elena Maria Isabella Dominica, Duquesa de Lugo
1) Felipe Juan Froilán
2) Victoria Federica  

Infanta Cristina Friederika Victoria Antonia Duquesa de Palma de Majorca  
1) Juan Valentin
2) Pablo Nicolás
3) Miguel
4) Irene

Juan Carlos's mother was Mercedes (who died fairly recently). Sophia's mother was Frederika. There were Queens Victoria Eugenie (paternal) and Sophie and Victoria Louise as maternal grandmothers. Juan Carlos has sisters Pilar (that's a pretty name) and Margarita.

Maybe Mercedes Pilar or vice-versa? With a Victoria and/or Sophie tossed in. Since Elena's daughter is Victoria, that name obviously wasn't 'ear-marked' for the heir's children. I like how Christina had an Irene--her aunt's name.

Cristina's second name is Federica ....  the Spanish version of her grandmother's name.

[Marlene]

Congratulations to the Prince and Princess of the Asturias! A beautiful baby girl! I hope they change the law so she can be a queen one day, and I'm sure a better one than Spain's last queen regnant! I think Leonor is a pretty name!  

Roll on the next royal births - the Countess of Wessex and Princess Claire of Belgium!  

The Countess of Wessex is not expecting a baby!

[Marlene]

I wonder what the name wil be. Here are some of the names in the RF so far:

Infanta Elena Maria Isabella Dominica, Duquesa de Lugo
1) Felipe Juan Froilán
2) Victoria Federica  

Infanta Cristina Friederika Victoria Antonia Duquesa de Palma de Majorca  
1) Juan Valentin
2) Pablo Nicolás
3) Miguel
4) Irene

Juan Carlos's mother was Mercedes (who died fairly recently). Sophia's mother was Frederika. There were Queens Victoria Eugenie (paternal) and Sophie and Victoria Louise as maternal grandmothers. Juan Carlos has sisters Pilar (that's a pretty name) and Margarita.

Maybe Mercedes Pilar or vice-versa? With a Victoria and/or Sophie tossed in. Since Elena's daughter is Victoria, that name obviously wasn't 'ear-marked' for the heir's children. I like how Christina had an Irene--her aunt's name.

Elena's third name is ISABEL.  Not Isabella.   Cristina is the duchess of Palma de Mallorca

[grandduchessella]

Sorry--I was going from the Online Gotha site.

I was pulling for Isabella because I like the name better than Isabel.  

[crotalo]

In fact. The correct form is semi-salic .

          There is a problem now with the expected change. It will be made AFTER the birth of Leonor. It must have been done BEFORE. Now, the new law will act with retroactivity. Retroactivity might include Elena, Cristina and their offspring. there is a grave mistake that is being solved in Spain by telling the new born is son of Prince, grand-son of heir and so on. Really , Elena is so. If the new law is retroactive. The succesory rights list must be changed. The date must be precised and so the successory rights of the Prince of Asturias must be revalorised. For those who argue that Felipe is yet heir, so was La Chata, and however, she lost inmediately her status at the birth of Alfonso XII, in reason of male priority. Now, it must be the same in reason of equality.

        If the date is no precised, the order of succession would put Alessandro Lecquio before, being his grand-mother Beatrice elder than Don Juan.

            However, spanish monarchy is not a restauration but an instauration. Franco passed over the rights of Don Juan. So spanish will do, in reason to sympathy, age, formation. Elena might renounce for her and her sons after this law. If not , there is a wide in the constitution. Remember that Carlos Maria Isidro claimed his rights against Isabel II, duaghter of king, and he was an ascendent, for he was MALE. Now Elena could do the same, for she is FEMALE in the same situation.

              I think the Royal Family reserve the succession to a later male prince, for they have hyden the sex of the new born until the birth. The reason: The reform of theConstitution is hard and everybody expected a male for not have problems

[umigon]

The Constitution will be changed, and Leonor will be queen. That's a fact.

[Marlene]

Sorry--I was going from the Online Gotha site.

I was pulling for Isabella because I like the name better than Isabel.  

However, Isabella is not a Spanish name ... a Spanish infanta would not be named Isabella, but Isabel.

It was queen Isabel who sent Columbus off .. not Queen Isabella.

[Marlene]

In fact. The correct form is semi-salic .

           There is a problem now with the expected change. It will be made AFTER the birth of Leonor. It must have been done BEFORE. Now, the new law will act with retroactivity. Retroactivity might include Elena, Cristina and their offspring. there is a grave mistake that is being solved in Spain by telling the new born is son of Prince, grand-son of heir and so on. Really , Elena is so. If the new law is retroactive. The succesory rights list must be changed. The date must be precised and so the successory rights of the Prince of Asturias must be revalorised. For those who argue that Felipe is yet heir, so was La Chata, and however, she lost inmediately her status at the birth of Alfonso XII, in reason of male priority. Now, it must be the same in reason of equality.

         If the date is no precised, the order of succession would put Alessandro Lecquio before, being his grand-mother Beatrice elder than Don Juan.

             However, spanish monarchy is not a restauration but an instauration. Franco passed over the rights of Don Juan. So spanish will do, in reason to sympathy, age, formation. Elena might renounce for her and her sons after this law. If not , there is a wide in the constitution. Remember that Carlos Maria Isidro claimed his rights against Isabel II, duaghter of king, and he was an ascendent, for he was MALE. Now Elena could do the same, for she is FEMALE in the same situation.

               I think the Royal Family reserve the succession to a later male prince, for they have hyden the sex of the new born until the birth. The reason: The reform of theConstitution is hard and everybody expected a male for not have problems

The succession law is not Semi Salic, but male primogeniture.  Semi Salic means that ALL MALES -cousins, great grand nephews, etc would take precedence over the sovereign's daughters.  This is not the case.  In Spain, as in Britain and Denmark, the sons come before the daughters, the brothers before the sisters,  but the direct line of girls is not passed over for a collateral male branch.

Elena was second in line until yesterday.  She is now third in line.  Don Carlos, the duke of Calabria, does not precede her in the succession.  Under Semi salic, he and his son Pedro would come after Leonor.  However, Spain is male primogeniture - and will remain as such for some years.  Changing the constitution in Spain will require approval of the current govt,  as well as the next Parliament, and I believe a referendum as well.  This would take about 5-7 years  ... and might be retroactive for Leonor, but certainly not for Elena and Cristina and their lines ...they would remain in succession after Felipe's line ... but as I said, it's not a done deal, and it will take some years.  

[Marlene]

The Constitution will be changed, and Leonor will be queen. That's a fact.

That the constitution will be changed is not a fact .... It will be a fact only after the constitution is changed, and as you know, as you live in Spain,  constitutional change is complicated, and will take about 5-7 years ...
I presume someone in the Cortes will have to introduce legislation, and that it will have to be passed,  and eventually, Parliament will have to be dissolved, new elections called, a new Parliament will also have to vote - and approve the legislation - and then a referendum, I think.

[umigon]

However, Isabella is not a Spanish name ... a Spanish infanta would not be named Isabella, but Isabel.

It was queen Isabel who sent Columbus off .. not Queen Isabella.

But Isabela, with one 'l' is indeed a Spanish name, not that it's very common, but it exists.