Help with Photo ID and/or Caption

[Marc]

Might be,but I am not certain,that's why I asked if anyone knows for sure...

[Nicolay]

Martinovic- Bejice

Does anybody have more Details/Dates, Cities, Occupation, Other children, Siblings etc.
regarding Ivan, Ivanovic and Jovan

Also this >>>

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq169/obrenovic/RODOSLOVEngleski1-1.jpg

doesn't match these trees/genealogies!?

http://bp1.blogger.com/_8CgdlVIS6eA/Rhlxx1KjSJI/AAAAAAAAACE/XZGGmpOODVs/s1600-h/OrlovicRodoslov.jpg

http://bp2.blogger.com/_8CgdlVIS6eA/Rul3UZm2KNI/AAAAAAAAAFM/yMoApq_eWFE/s1600-h/rodsl_orlov_kljajevic.jpg

or does it?



http://porekloorlovica.blogspot.com/2007/04/porodice-koje-poticu-od-roda-orlovica.html

[Nicolay]

I had found Marko, but the other siblings and their descendants elude me!
it is also interesting to read that he was baptized by Andrija Zmajevic
Quote

http://www.perast.com/html-ENGLESKI/characters.html

"""MARKO MARTINOVIC (1663 - 1716): He was born on July 15, 1663, and died in 1716. He was baptized by Andrija Zmajevic. He is one of the most important personalities in the history of Perast. He was a famous nautical expert, with a gift for mathematics, drawing, and shipbuilding. Although he only had primary and professional nautical education, he was so famous for his knowledge that the emperor Petar the Great entrusted education of Russian cadets to him. In 1700, in Perast, he opened the first nautical school of the Boka Kotorska. This school gained such a good reputation, that the Venetian Duke, at the request of Peter the Great, sent 16 Russian boyars to Perast to be instructed in navigation by Marko Martinovich, so that they could organize the Russian naval fleet on their return to Russia. He sailed to Russia, Mongolia, China, and Korea.
In Perast, between the Town Hall and the former Djurisic warehouse, there used to be a square dedicated to Marko Martinovic. At the site of the present-day Town Hall there used to be a cardak (watchtower) and a house/tower of the Martinovic family. The Martinovic family had a huge palace in Velja Street.
Marko was a contemporary and associate of Vicko Bujovic in various town bodies."""



http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://museummaritimum.com/elementi/slike/skolstvo2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://museummaritimum.com/eng/skolstvo.htm&usg=__PbYTi4_QgEREcERM16MtZqlLO-8=&h=480&w=640&sz=104&hl=en&start=9&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=5duHrnofaABxaM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMarko%2BMartinovic%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1

http://www.perast.com/manjeslike/foto500/p-martinovic5.jpg

[Nicolay]

Here is another Zmajevic meaning "Matija Zmajevic"

http://www.globmarine.com/History.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matija_Zmajevi%C4%87

But I am really interested in
Details/Dates, Cities, Occupation, Other children, Siblings etc.
regarding Ivan, Ivanovic and Jovan !!!

Thank you if you can help!

[Nicolay]

Roman Catholic!!!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrija_Zmajevi%C4%87

[Nicolay]

Dear Predrag R Jakovljevic,
do have the information regarding Ivan, Ivanovic and Jovan?

I don't understand the silence!

http://forum.krstarica.com/showthread.php?p=12216155

I just wish I could read this!

[Nicolay]

By the way did "Fr. Nenad M. Jovanovich" design your Arms?

Maybe here are some clues???
...if I could read it....

To quote you!
"""У првом браку кнез Мартин је био ожењен ћерком Баичког кнеза Ивана Годече. После смрти његовог таста, за кнеза Бајица изабран је управо он. Од њега су Мартиновићи у Бајицама, поред кнежевских, константно држали и војводске титуле. То је наставио и Војвода Милан Обреновић - њихов потомак. Кнежевска титула постала је наследна управо од кнеза Мартина, а Мартиновићи су је после његове смрти носили без промене.Из првог Мартиновог брака потичу синови Јован и Раича, који није имао порода. После смрти прве жене, кнез Мартин се поново оженио и то ћерком попа Јакова. Из тог брака је имао пет синова: војводу Батрића, кнеза Томаша, Ивана, Марка и Милоша – сви опевани у Горском вијенцу. Син Јована Мартиновића, Иван се сели у околину Сјенице, а потом са своја два сина Иваном и Обреном најпре у околину Ваљева, а потом у Брусницу. И Андрија Лубурић у своме делу “ОРЛОВИЋИ И ЊИХОВА УЛОГА У ЦРНОГОРСКОМ БАДЊЕМ ВЕЧЕРУ” наводи да је Милан Обреновић директан потомак војводско-кнежевске породице Мартиновић. За ово је сигурно осим Милана, добро знао и Кнез Милош, који је узевши презиме свога полубрата, желео и сам да настави традицију породице Мартиновић. """

[Marc]

This just says that Prince Milosh Obrenovic has followed the tradition of Dukes and Princes Martinovic(Dukes and Princes were at that time just military honors meaning that the family distinguished and famous for it's war virtue) and that he wanted to continue their tradition and willingly took the family name of his half-brother...Some members of the Martinovic family were described in "The mountain wreath" by Petar Petrovic-Njegosh,Prince-Bishop of Montenegro...

Btw,Martinovic family is the family of his stepfather Obren Martinovic,first husband of his mother...until 1810 Prince Milosh was using his real name and that was Milosh Teodorovic...

[Nicolay]

Thank you Marc,

any clues about Ivan, Jovan, Tomas etc. ...their professions and place of residency... since they are mentioned?

Just trying to figure out what happened to them and how they and their families continued!

Thank you!

[Nicolay]

...and I am solely interested in the Martinovic part,
as far as the genealogy goes, neither Ivan, Ivanovich nor Jovan had a title,
but all this doesn't matter ....
just trying to find the dates, profession and continuation!

[Marc]

Many persons in Serbia and Montenegro had this kind of "title"...it was just a military honor and that's why they were called Dukes,but not like reigning dukes or something similar,more like war-generals who were called dukes...that's why you can't find them titled in genealogy tables...

There are many Martinovic descendants today...they are descendants of Orlovic family...several female members were from Martinovic family,like mother of King Nicholas of Montenegro...if you want to know more about this complicated family and it's history read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlovi%C4%87i

Here is another link,although this one is in Serbian so use google translate or something else:

http://porekloorlovica.blogspot.com/2007/04/obrenovici-i-veza-sa-orlovicima.html

Btw,Martinov and Martinovic are different family names...the first one is originally from Croatia,not Serbia...here is a link for Martinov family(in Croatian-use some translate program) name and it's origins which are totally different from the ones of Martinovic family...

http://imehrvatsko.net/apex/f?p=108:PREZIMENA:224252972927216::NO:RP:P3_PREZIME:Martinov

[Nicolay]

Marc thank you, for at least trying,

sadly none of the links are giving me any details about the persons in question,

..should anybody come across an Ivan, Jovan or similar who was born before 1700
and who participated in one way or another in the "Great Northern War" please be so kind and let me know!

"Anybody, "possibly" in connection to ships, shipping and/or trade for example captains, merchants, ship builders etc.
and connected to "possibly" following cities/regions > Baltic region, St. Petersburg, Nice, Arco-Tyrol, Venice, Napoli, Paris and China/Shanghai, Tientsin etc."




Titled or Untitled, makes absolutely no difference to me!

Thanks again for your help!

[Nicolay]

Forgot..
....deeply seated in religion, most likely Roman Catholic vers. Orthodox,
with possible SMOM connection.............
..........and yes, Origin within Montenegro or close proximity !

[Nicolay]

Well !
There are/were only a few possible answers!

- 1 ... We don't know anything about the persons in question!

- 2 ... We know, but a connection isn't possible!

- 3 ... We know, but don't want it to be public!

- 4 ... We know, but have something to hide!

- 5 ... We know, but want money for the information!


Only #4 explains the silence...but now is the question,
what do you have to hide and why are you hiding it?

Frank Martinoff

[Nicolay]

I hate to post this here,
but maybe somebody else will find this "ODD" !
Unless we are all going to start to believe in Parallel Universes!

NO..these are not the same people, but similarities "could" possibly point to family ties ? ? ?
OR...just a fluke of nature!

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1135/villacattaroversarcopic.jpg

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5448/1arcocatarocastellocopy.jpg

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2341/1cattaroversgardaarcoco.jpg

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/3179/1markomartinovic2nicoma.jpg
 
again.....these are not the same.... but similar!

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7652/1amartinovicversmartino.jpg

Again...I am only looking just around, or "most likely" before 1700!

Would love to get this off my list of things to worry about! ! !