Author Topic: Carlos III of Spain and his family  (Read 43131 times)

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Offline Sissi

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2007, 03:39:25 PM »
Does anybody know if Queen Maria Amalia had any contact with her younger sister, the Dauphine Marie Josephe, mother of Louis XVI and with her younger brother Albert of Saxe Teschen, husband of Marie Christine of Austria, sister of Marie Antoinette?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 01:53:50 PM by trentk80 »

Offline umigon

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2007, 06:15:29 PM »
In fact, Maria Amalia wasn't a nice lady, let's say she was quite unpleasant. She was an irritable woman of changing moods.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 11:48:02 AM by trentk80 »
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Offline umigon

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2007, 06:20:15 PM »
Does anybody know if Queen Maria Amalia had any contact with her younger sister, the Dauphine Marie Josephe, mother of Louis XVI and with her younger brother Albert of Saxe Teschen, husband of Marie Christine of Austria, sister of Marie Antoinette?

She certainly had contact with her family, they were all very close. She had much contact with Friedrich Christian (they loved each other deeply) and Maria Anna, but she also had contacts with the others. I don't to what extent, but I remember reading that she even corresponded with her sister Maria Kunigunde, whom she never met.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 11:55:09 AM by trentk80 »
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Offline Duke of New Jersey

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2007, 08:25:46 PM »
What was her realtionship to her sister-in-law, Lousie-Elisabeth de France.  Were they united in their oppositon aganist Elizabeth Farnesse.  I guess they did spend some time together in Italy because Louise-Elisabeth came to Parma in 1748 and Maria Amalia left Naples for Spain in 1759.

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Offline trentk80

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2007, 10:35:02 AM »
No, Felipe, duke of Calabria (mental retarded) was left in Naples.

Felipe (or Filippo) never set foot on Spain. He spent the rest of his life in Naples with his brother Ferdinando, who was very fond of him. His eratic behavior caused a lot of comment indeed, but in the Neapolitan court. Nevertheless, he always attended opera performances and dinners with his brother, though most of the times he just sat quietly without saying a single word. When Philip died in 1777, Carlos III ordered that there should be no period of mourning and it seems that it was a relief for the family.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 11:52:50 AM by trentk80 »
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Offline umigon

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2007, 10:38:35 AM »
The accounts came from the Neapolitan Court, Felipe never set a single foot in Spain. From a human point of view he was a poor creature and everybody pitied him. From a political point of view, he was an embarrasment.

He never learnt to speak correctly. Of course he never learnt to read nor to write. When he reached puberty he became sexually mature and he attacked several ladies of the Court, so he had to be kept secure in his rooms, as Carlos III denied permission to castrate him, as some suggested.

Once in a while Felipe would be taken to the streets because fresh air was good for him, but also to make sure that everybody knew that the eldest son was uncapable of inheriting anything. He lived with the Royal Family of Naples, but when Felipe contracted smallpox in 1777, aged 30, Ferdinando fled the palace of Capodimonte with his wife and children and most courtiers, leaving Felipe to die alone.
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Offline José

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2007, 11:29:26 AM »
Are there any pictures of Felipe ?

Offline umigon

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2007, 06:38:50 AM »
I scanned this photo of Felipe from the book "Diamantes de la corona", by Juan Balansó. I have a couple of other photos of Felipe (all when he was a child) that 'll post later in the day.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2007, 06:42:05 AM by umigon »
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Offline CountessKate

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2007, 07:32:24 AM »
The British Envoy to Naples, Sir John Gray, considered Charles and Maria Amalia "the ugliest couple in the world" and Charles de Brosses wrote in 1739, when she would have been about 15 that "This worthy Princess has a malicious air, with her bullet nose, her crayfish features and magpie voice.  'Tis said she was pretty when she arrived from Saxony, but she has recently had smallpox.  She is still quite young, and has not yet grown up.  (At the time I wrote this she was a month or five weeks with child, which happened to her before any sign was apparent)."

Maria Amalia was on bad terms with Louise-Elizabeth of France when she was about to go to Spain on the death of Ferdinand VI, as Charles had been negotiating the marriage of his and Maria Amalia's daughter with Maria Theresa's son, the future Emperor Joseph II.  However, Louise-Elizabeth nipped in and arranged with the Austrian ambassador in Paris to substitute her eldest daughter Isabel instead.  Maria Amalia was so furious at this French perfidy she changed her travel plans, which had included paying a visit to Bayonne to see her sister Maria Josepha, the Dauphine of France, and travelled by sea to Spain, although she was a bad sailor.  So while both daughters-in-law detested Isabel Farnese, they didn't make common cause against her.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 01:45:51 PM by trentk80 »

Offline beladona

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2008, 03:16:46 AM »
Felipe was the oldest son of king Carlos III and Maria Amalia of Saxony, but he was excluded from succession because of his mental illness. Are there some pictures of him? How and where he lived?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 01:11:54 PM by trentk80 »

Offline stairsainty

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2008, 06:17:09 AM »
He was never "of Spain", but was in fact specifically excluded from the Spanish succession by the Prammatica of 6 October 1759, which was issued to regulate the Spanish and Two Sicillies successions, making the latter a secondogeniture succession and the Two Sicilies line a branch of the House of Spain, albeit Sovereign.

Filippo (never Felipe), was accorded the title of Duca di Calabria at his birth and retained it until his death. There is a moment in the diaries of Emperor Joseph II when he records visiting the poor boy, who was kept living quietly with his attendants.

Offline REMI

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2008, 09:43:17 AM »
Yes, indeed, never D.Filippo di Borbone, duke of Calabria until his death, royal prince of Naples  and Sicily was infante of spain.
I send you another pic of D.Filippo with his brother D.Carlo, future king Carlos IV of Spain.I don't know how to send it on the forum... Could you please transfer this picture for me?
Thanks

REMI

Offline Norbert

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2008, 10:39:32 AM »
I believe he never learned to speak and  his behaviour was  eratic. On maturity he would attack women and was kept in secure rooms. His father refused to castrate him !

Offline Norbert

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2008, 10:42:25 AM »
he lived at the Capodimonte Palace and his brother king Ferdinand was very fond of him. He died there of smallpox in 1777

Offline REMI

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Re: Carlos III of Spain and his family
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2008, 01:38:43 PM »
It is difficult enough to understand why
Kking Carlos III of Spain and his wife Maria Amalia  left their eldest son D.Filippo in Naples in 1759  when they went to Madrid with all their other children. The poor little Filippo was only 12 years old.

REMI