Author Topic: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family  (Read 29394 times)

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Offline Stefan22

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2009, 12:57:49 PM »
I'm not sure when it happened, but it was around here I think that the branch became Catholic.

Wilhelm II was an only son. His uncle Paul had died at age one and his other uncle August had married morganatically. The next in line had to go back to a distant relative, Alexander, and his line. Alexander, though, had contracted a morganatic marriage in 1835 with Grafin Claudine Rhedey. Their children were granted the surname of 'Teck'. Alexander's son, Francis, married Princess Mary Adelaide of Cambridge, in 1866. (Queen Victoria created him Duke of Teck with the rank of 'Highness' in 1871) Their first child, Victoria Mary 'May', would become Queen of England in 1910 so it didn't work out too badly for this line considering Alexander's great-great-granddaughter sits on the throne of Great Britain while the Wurttemberg throne has been gone for almost 90 years.

This line of the Royal Family neveer became catholic. Also not the Teck branch. Only the branch descending from the youngest brother of King Friedrich I. Also the Teck line and the silesian line and the urach line asre descending from brothers of King Friedrich I. In the line descending from Duke Alexander his oldest sons also named Alexander married Princess marie of Orléans, daughter of king Louis Philippe. Their only son Duke Philipp was first baptized protestant but one the last wish of his mother who died soon after the birth he was again christened catholic. he married Archduchess Marie Thereisa of Austria. When King Wilhelm II. died in 1921 without male descendants also the silesian line was extinct in the male line. So the Headship of the Royal House went to the catholic line which is today the only line left.
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Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2009, 06:47:46 PM »
The two Gay kings of Württemberg were Karl and Wilhelm II.
Fancy a country where half of the kings were gay! Are any male lovers of the placid Wilhelm II known?
And does this mean that obese King Friedrich I was just dissolute, but not gay, despite the many rumours?

King Friedrich I was known for his disgusting ways and dissolute life, cruelty to his family, all in all he looked like a maniac, but I've not seen in sources anything about his homosexuality.
OK, I just interpreted some references to "many annoying male favourites" in an old book by Carl Eduard Vehse called "Süddeutsche Fürstenhöfe" to be veiled references to homosexuality, but then it probably was just rumours. I can understand that people were willing to believe anything about King Friedrich!

In the line descending from Duke Alexander his oldest sons also named Alexander married Princess marie of Orléans, daughter of king Louis Philippe. Their only son Duke Philipp was first baptized protestant but one the last wish of his mother who died soon after the birth he was again christened catholic. he married Archduchess Marie Thereisa of Austria. When King Wilhelm II. died in 1921 without male descendants also the silesian line was extinct in the male line. So the Headship of the Royal House went to the catholic line which is today the only line left.
It's interesting that the wife of Prince Friedrich of Württemberg, the heir of the current head of the house, is Princess Wilhelmine Marie of Wied, great granddaughter of Wilhelm II's daughter Pauline, who is discussed above. So the royal bloodline will be united with the ducal one in the future. (But perhaps not lasting, with regard to the headship of the house, as Duke Friedrich and his Wied wife only have daughters.)

Offline Stefan22

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2009, 03:14:20 PM »
[
In the line descending from Duke Alexander his oldest sons also named Alexander married Princess marie of Orléans, daughter of king Louis Philippe. Their only son Duke Philipp was first baptized protestant but one the last wish of his mother who died soon after the birth he was again christened catholic. he married Archduchess Marie Thereisa of Austria. When King Wilhelm II. died in 1921 without male descendants also the silesian line was extinct in the male line. So the Headship of the Royal House went to the catholic line which is today the only line left.
It's interesting that the wife of Prince Friedrich of Württemberg, the heir of the current head of the house, is Princess Wilhelmine Marie of Wied, great granddaughter of Wilhelm II's daughter Pauline, who is discussed above. So the royal bloodline will be united with the ducal one in the future. (But perhaps not lasting, with regard to the headship of the house, as Duke Friedrich and his Wied wife only have daughters.)

Duke Friedrich and Duchess marie have 1 son and 2 daughters:
Dzuke Wihelm, born 1994
Duchess Marie-Amelie born 1996
Duchess Sophie Dorothee born 1997

So it's true the over next had of the Royal House will be the great-great-great-grandson of the lastr King of Württemberg.
Stefan

Offline Svetabel

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2011, 03:18:33 AM »
Marie of Waldeck-Pirmont, 1st wife of Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg


Offline Hector

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2012, 03:39:23 PM »
Quote from a letter by King Wilhelm II's aunt, Queen Sophie of the Netherlands, to Lady Malet dated 16 June 1873

Now, my sister Catherine is with me, coming from the Teck where she enjoyed herself immensely. It did her good, her narrow mind, stuffed with prejudices, was brightened and she saw there were other objects of interest than merely gossip and family affairs. I hope the light may last. She ardently wishes her son – the future heir of Württemberg – to marry Princess Beatrice.

Offline Marie Valerie

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2013, 01:54:37 PM »
In the book "Frauen im Hause Württemberg" by Hansmartin Decker-Hauff is a strange order from König Wilhelm II.
When his only son and his wife Marie died, Wilhelm was depressed and thought he would not live long either.
So he left a instruction for his only surviving child Pauline. She can marry who she wants, Prince, Count, Baron or not noble at all - BUT no member of the Romanows!
The author thinks that she would have been not allowed to marry Nicholas (II.) but I think that was for all family members.

The Württembergs were well connected with the Romanows (5 marriages) the last tie was with Wera Konstantinowna who lived to 1912.
There was no explanation in the instruction why no Pauline-Russia marriage. Maybe the anti-german sentiment from the last Romanow generation?
 

Offline Svetabel

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2013, 03:33:19 AM »
In the book "Frauen im Hause Württemberg" by Hansmartin Decker-Hauff is a strange order from König Wilhelm II.
When his only son and his wife Marie died, Wilhelm was depressed and thought he would not live long either.
So he left a instruction for his only surviving child Pauline. She can marry who she wants, Prince, Count, Baron or not noble at all - BUT no member of the Romanows!
The author thinks that she would have been not allowed to marry Nicholas (II.) but I think that was for all family members.

The Württembergs were well connected with the Romanows (5 marriages) the last tie was with Wera Konstantinowna who lived to 1912.
There was no explanation in the instruction why no Pauline-Russia marriage. Maybe the anti-german sentiment from the last Romanow generation?
 


Interesting detail...The Last Romanow generation - whom do you exactly mean? I think both last Romanow Grand Duchesses in the Wurttemberg Family were quite popular. Vera Kosntantinovna was highly pro-German person. Probably Queen Olga was not a real fave in the Wurttemberg clan...

But the reason of the King's decision could be unstable situation in Russia with its revolutionary movement in 1870-1880s. In 1881 year Emperor Alexander II was murdered and that was a hard blow fro any Royal...Russia was not safe country fro more or less stable Europe and sleepy German Kingdoms.

Offline Marie Valerie

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2013, 09:47:01 AM »
The "anti-german sentiment from the last Romanow generation" is for me the Generation of Alexander III. and the Grand Dukes like Nikolascha,
who don't like Germans or Germany even if their mothers were from German kingdoms of duchies.
In his memories Crownprince Willy of Prussia said that a travel to russia, everyone at the russian court was mean to him (for beeing german or prussian) except Baron Fredericks (?spelling).

I didn't thought of the Grand Duchesses who married to Württemberg.
As you said, Wera Konstantinowna was more german than russian, she adored Bismarck, Kaiser Wilhelm I. and even Kaiser Wilhelm II. 

Offline Превед

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2013, 05:09:05 PM »
Perhaps he also had in mind the negative influence of Romanov blood on the dynasties of Württemberg and their close kin, the Orange-Nassaus in the Netherlands? In both houses you find a concentration of what the 19th century saw as "degenerate traits": gay or bisexual monarchs (Karl I and Wilhelm II himself and Willem II (married to a Romanov)), heirs not marrying and dying young (the Prince of Orange and his brothers), mental health problems (Willem III) and general succession problems. It could appear that the political (to be as German as possible) was linked to the blood, with the British RF bringing in hemophilia and liberalism and the Romanovs degeneracy and despotism, all of it eventually leading to other places than healthy German unity and stability. It would be enough to see how the Württembergs' step-kin, the Princes of Oldenburg, fared once they married a Romanov and moved to Russia. Quite unlike the Oldenburgs who remained in their ancestral land and reproduced like a mini-version of the vigorous Hohenzollerns. The same could of course be said of the House of Hesse (and quite a few other German dynasties with Romanov links too.)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 05:24:08 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2013, 08:19:00 PM »
Perhaps he also had in mind the negative influence of Romanov blood on the dynasties of Württemberg and their close kin, the Orange-Nassaus in the Netherlands? In both houses you find a concentration of what the 19th century saw as "degenerate traits": gay or bisexual monarchs (Karl I and Wilhelm II himself and Willem II (married to a Romanov)), heirs not marrying and dying young (the Prince of Orange and his brothers), mental health problems (Willem III) and general succession problems. It could appear that the political (to be as German as possible) was linked to the blood, with the British RF bringing in hemophilia and liberalism and the Romanovs degeneracy and despotism, all of it eventually leading to other places than healthy German unity and stability. It would be enough to see how the Württembergs' step-kin, the Princes of Oldenburg, fared once they married a Romanov and moved to Russia. Quite unlike the Oldenburgs who remained in their ancestral land and reproduced like a mini-version of the vigorous Hohenzollerns. The same could of course be said of the House of Hesse (and quite a few other German dynasties with Romanov links too.)

sometimes referred to at the time as "the German affliction".
HerrKaiser

Offline Превед

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2013, 06:23:54 AM »
In both houses you find a concentration of what the 19th century saw as "degenerate traits": gay or bisexual monarchs (Karl I and Wilhelm II himself and Willem II (married to a Romanov))
sometimes referred to at the time as "the German affliction".

Yes, I think other nations observed how young German (but also British - NB "Brideshead Revisited") males of the higher social classes often went through intense same-sex crushes in youth. Notable examples include Emperor Wilhelm II and Jewish Siegfried Sommer in Kassel, a romantic friendship across race and class reflected in Fred Uhlman's (author of "The Making of an Englishman") marvellous autobiograhpic novella "Reunion", which takes place in Stuttgart and in which one of the real-life models of the object of the crush is Duke Philipp Albrecht of Württemberg (instead of Claus Graf von Stauffenberg, as often presumed). And of course Thomas Mann and Armin Martens, a relationship which was expressed literally in "Tonio Kröger" and his crush on the "all-Schleswig-Holsteinian boy" Hans Hansen, another marvellous novella with an interesting Danophile and proto-fascist, Nitzschean theme.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 06:41:24 AM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Marie Valerie

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2013, 10:16:59 AM »
I have thought a lot of why König Wilhelm II. was only against a Princess Pauline-Romanow marriage.

First comes to mind that Wilhelm II. was a convinced Lutheran, he named his only son Ulrich after Duke Ulrich of Württemberg (1487–1550), the first Protestant ruler of Württemberg.
But when he wanted Pauline to marry only a protestant, he would have excluded all non-protestants in the instruction, such as the Kingdoms of Saxony and Bavaria.

Second: Pauline was heir to her father. When the König does not want her to marry outside the country, and keep the fortune in the German Empire, he would have mentioned that in the document. He did not. No other foreign court was mentioned, so it seems the only one he don't like was the russian royalty.

Maybe König Wilhelm II. knew something about the Romanows we don't know?
Or it was simply that he wouldn't let his only child go to danger, you know, the were attempts to kill the imperial family.

Wilhelms II. first wife Marie died in 1882, their son Ulrich in 1880. Königin Olga Nikolajewna and Herzogin Wera Konstantinowna were both alive and at the württermbergian court at this time.
I think Wilhelm never talked about Olga, but of Wera he said: "She is ugly but not without heart".
That sounds he don't liked her, and in Paulines (later Fürstin zu Wied) memoirs "Vom Leben gelernt" she writes that she barely knew Wera's twins Olga and Elsa and they were never close.
Pauline was born in 1877 and Wera's twin-girls in 1876, it's curious that they were so close in age and from the same family and didn't see each other often...

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2013, 11:04:05 PM »
It is interesting--there has to be some personal reason for it that may never be explained.

It's especially interesting given that the Romanov-Wuttemberg connection was such that there was an exhibit and a book written specifically about the 5 marriages.

Princess Sophie Dorothee married Russian Tsar Paul I and took the name Empress Maria Feodorovna
Princess Friederike Charlotte Marie of Wurttemberg took the name Elena Pavlovna
Grand Duchess  Catherine (Queen Catherine)
Grand Duchess Olga (Queen Olga)
Grand Duchess Vera Konstantinovna to Duke Eugen of Württemberg

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Offline Marie Valerie

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2013, 08:15:01 AM »
I think you mean "Im Glanz der Zaren" ?

The exhibition is still running in Stuttgart.

I was there at the end of November and wrote about it in the News Links in this Forum.

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=17567.0

Offline Stefan22

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Re: King Wilhelm II of Wurttemberg and his family
« Reply #44 on: December 26, 2013, 06:02:19 AM »
Perhaps he also had in mind the negative influence of Romanov blood on the dynasties of Württemberg and their close kin, the Orange-Nassaus in the Netherlands? In both houses you find a concentration of what the 19th century saw as "degenerate traits": gay or bisexual monarchs (Karl I and Wilhelm II himself and Willem II (married to a Romanov)), heirs not marrying and dying young (the Prince of Orange and his brothers), mental health problems (Willem III) and general succession problems. It could appear that the political (to be as German as possible) was linked to the blood, with the British RF bringing in hemophilia and liberalism and the Romanovs degeneracy and despotism, all of it eventually leading to other places than healthy German unity and stability. It would be enough to see how the Württembergs' step-kin, the Princes of Oldenburg, fared once they married a Romanov and moved to Russia. Quite unlike the Oldenburgs who remained in their ancestral land and reproduced like a mini-version of the vigorous Hohenzollerns. The same could of course be said of the House of Hesse (and quite a few other German dynasties with Romanov links too.)

BVut Wilhelm II. had no Romano blood at all. They only children from a Romwnov who married to Württemberg where the daughters of King Wilhelm, I. and Queen Catharina but from both there are no descendatns today and the daughters of Duke Carl Eugen and Duchess Vera.
I thin k the succession problems ahd more to do as in the case of Wilöhelm II. there where many marriages to close Family members. His parents where first cousins as where huis maternal grandparents so Duke Friedrich Eugen and Duchess Friederike Sophie Dorothee where tree times his great great grandparents.
Stefan