Romania and Transilvania

[frederika]

its easy to say that the hole of eastern europe was ruled by the soviets. bethore 1917 bulgaria greece and yugoslavia (which was non a so-called satalite state) were basicly ruled by western governments. Even to day counties like russia, poland, and the UK are basicly US satalite's who do what ever the US tells them.

[Laura_]

I totally agree with you ilyala i couldn't have said it better,although i know these things very well is harder  to put them down as you did.
Linnea dear i'm very,very sure of my family-background,and i'm not at all anti-hungarian...i have many hungarian friends,we get along very well,we respect each other etc
Anabel,it seems that you can not be as neutral as you've swear to be in the beginning since you name Missy a begger or you compare this brilliant queen with a stupid little girl :)but its your sincere opinion about her and i respect it...everything she did she did for her country,Romania,the love for us was her faith,she believed in Romania,she died with the words"sweet country" on her lips...if you are neutral you will understand Missy...Had she been queen of Hungary,she would have done the impossible so that Hungary could keep her lands,and she would have certainly failed because this was impossible in the 1920' situation...but i'm sure she would have tried at least,unfortunately for hungarians nobody tried anything(am i right???),although it's true there was almost nothing to do in their situation.Missy identified herself with the Romanian people,with the romanian cause and you have to admit there were few queens in that  period who achieved this...she may seem to you a  humiliated begger ,to us she was our nation's loving mother,our angel of glory,in some way our saviour...i know these seem exaggerated to you but this is what i feel and i can't shut up.Is the same thing,i suppose,you feel for Sissy...
Anyway i don't think we will ever agree because this disscusion is on a  very thorny matter for both sides and some will continue to defend the hungarian cause other will continue to be pro-romanian an i will continue to defend Marie:)who,i repeat did what she thought is better for her country and nobody should blame her for this...

ilyala multumesc:)

[Laura_]

sorry for my English,i know it's not the best in fact is bad but at least i have written exactly what i feel:)

[ilyala]

its easy to say that the hole of eastern europe was ruled by the soviets. bethore 1917 bulgaria greece and yugoslavia (which was non a so-called satalite state) were basicly ruled by western governments. Even to day counties like russia, poland, and the UK are basicly US satalite's who do what ever the US tells them.

what does this have to do with the topic of discussion? while russia is most certainly NOT a us sattelite, i agree about the other countries (the smaller ones) of the ex-communist block. they have developed a chronical fear of russia and have stuck with the idea that not russia means us so they cling to the us like idiots. and yes, i include my country in that. and i totally hate the idea of doing everything someone tells you because you're afraid to stand out on your own and i apply that to these countries too. but, again, what does this have to do with transylvania and who should get it?

ilyala multumesc

nu ai pentru ce

[muriel]

Even if it is a bit of topic I just have to tell a joke I have heard some time ago by an Hungarian friend:
In the early 1960s, a Hungarian, now living abroad, visits Budapest. He wants to go to the old Déak-Street, but this street doesn´t exist anymore. A nice policeman explains to him that this steet is now the Stalin-Street. Now he wants to go to the old Andrássy-Place, but also this place doesn´t exist anymore either. It´s now the Lenin-Place. A bit confused, he walks down to the Danube. A policemen walking by ask what he´s doing. Our dear Hungarian friend responses: "Oh, I just wanted to look at the Wolga!"

Oh, that´s a brilliant anecdote! I am sure you could hear similar ones in whole Eastern Europe!

[muriel]

the Esterhazys, the Batthyánys etc. The

Oh, those Hungarian names are so sexy!
I think that another part of the problem is that Hungary is a very female country, it sometimes acts like a beautiful spoilt girl. And the other eastern countries, especially Romania, are more male, even harsh. So when R. took away land/property from Hungary, the land reacted like every beautiful girl would react, she was extremly angry! That´s why some say that Hungary was "rapped" by Romania...

[Linnea]

Linnea dear i'm very,very sure of my family-background,and i'm not at all anti-hungarian...

Laura, I didn´t want to annoy you, I was just surprised that both you and ilya have mixed backgraounds but are passionatly pro-romanian.
And, dear Laura, I think you have to understand anabel. She can´t be neutral at this topic (and I am sure you can´t either) because it is a very emotional topic.

[ilyala]

i can understand personal involvement into a topic. especially since i am personally involved too. but i would like for people to admit it when other people make valid points against their case. every time i witnessed a simmilar conflict, the hungarians said 'but transylvania was part of hungary for hundreds of years so it's ours'. no-one ever mentioned the clear romanian majority. and if you ask me that is not a valid argument. greece and bulgaria were part of the ottoman empire for centuries. does that mean they have to be turkish now? i don't like it when people cling to an argument, even when it's proved invalid. all i'm asking for is a little open-mindness.

[TampaBay]

 Even to day counties like russia, poland, and the UK are basicly US satalite's who do what ever the US tells them.

As a citizen of the USA I must say the above statement is not true!

TampaBay

[Laura_]

i don't think Russia is a US satalite but anyway this has nothing to do with our discussion:(

[Laura_]

Laura, I didn´t want to annoy you, I was just surprised that both you and ilya have mixed backgraounds but are passionatly pro-romanian.
And, dear Laura, I think you have to understand anabel. She can´t be neutral at this topic (and I am sure you can´t either) because it is a very emotional topic.

You didn't annoy me at all:) it's true it's hard for everyone to stay neutral at this topic,each is involved in some way,i wrote about this too...

[ilyala]

As a citizen of the USA I must say the above statement is not true!

TampaBay

as a citizem of romania i can tell you that the statement is not untrue. while romania does not do EVERYTHING the us asks, the romanian government is very keen on pleasing the american government. basically it goes back to years of russian oppresion. in the cold war it was either the russians or the americans. after we got rid of the russians most romanians hated them so bad that they figured the only way to avoid that happening again is to get close to the american government. therefor, any way to please the americans was almost immediately accepted. as a romanian citizen and as a person who does not like this kind of behaviour i am against this policy. but most romanians are in agreement to it.

[frederika]

maybe russia is not a US satilite that was a stupid thing to say!

but it is true that america now owns a lot of it. Poland defanitly is they have understandibly always hated Russia but they are an extremly fashist and nationalistic country the ownly one in europe who wanted a second Bush term.

living in the UK  i can certanly tell you that the government here does everything the Bush adminitration tells it.

[anabel]

Anabel,it seems that you can not be as neutral as you've swear to be in the beginning since you name Missy a begger or you compare this brilliant queen with a stupid little girl

Laura, here is what your beloved Queen Maria (Why do you call her by her nickname all the time? That´s not respectful at all...) said in 1920:" You see, Romania simply has to have Transylvania. We want so much Bessarabia too." That´s begging. Just compare this behaviour with that of a spoilt girl saying "Mommy, I wannt this and that."
BTW, I am not an admirer of Empress Elisabeth. She only used Hungary for personal reason (possibility to escape from Vienna, to annoy her mother-in-law etc.), but she of course also did good things. And I think that also your Queen Maria did good things like visiting soldiers during WWI, but was it really necessary to steal land from another country?

[ilyala]

you keep using the word stealing but you never argument on why the land should belong to hungary and not romania. i have given you plenty of reasons why transylvania should belong to romania. you haven't given me one valid reason for which it should belong to hungary. please try to state your case.