Romania and Transilvania

[Laura_]

Of course, as Romanians are in the majority...

no matter who is in a majority and who is in a minority...the fact is that if a referendum would be organized, the majority(hungarians or romanians,they all are transylvanians) would decide...that's the way these things work!!! you know this thing-the majority is essential and as romanians are in the majority in Transilvania,romanians would  obviously decide to be in Romania together with their brothers:)
yet i don't think we should discuss  this big "IF" cause i don't think there will be any referendum on this matter in the next years in Transilvania...
Laura

[muriel]

so why are we even discussing this? why should transylvania belong to hungary, if most transylvanians want to stay in romania? is it just me or it really doesn't make sense?

If one applies this logic, you could also say that e.g. some parts of the USA should be part of Mexico, as they have a Mexican majority! You see, this doesn´t work out...

[ilyala]

If one applies this logic, you could also say that e.g. some parts of the USA should be part of Mexico, as they have a Mexican majority! You see, this doesn´t work out...

that depends. do the mexicans in those states wanna live in mexico or in the us? cause if for example i wanna live in the us and i move in a state that has a majority of romanians, i don't want that state to belong to romania. i moved to the us for a reason... right?

[ilyala]

Oh, you are soo sweet! Do you really believe that in a democracy everybody´s vote counts the same?!? Not if Romania is still that corrupt as it was back then! That´s so naive, I can´t believe it!!!
And, dear, you don´t seem to be open for the most important reason at all: Transylvania had been Hungarian since ever after; sadly, Romanians saw that people in Hungary were richer (and, thanks God, we still are!), so they decided to move where the wealth was...

since ever after?! hungarians came in europe at the beginning of the 10th century. the romanians had been there since the romans left. in case you wanna know when that was that was the 3rd century. and the only reason why i'm not saying before that is that because that there was the dacs (who are the romanian's ancestors) and when the romans came they mixed with the dacs and that resulted in the romanian people. if you wanna count the dacs too, we've been here since the first millenium before christ.

and before you will give me that bullshit theory of the whole romanian people migrating to albania after the roman withdrawal, it is written in the HUNGARIAN chronicle, written by anonymous, HUNGARIAN writer at the court of king bella 4th, all about how hungarians came, found romanians in transylvania and conquered it. romanians were there before hungarians. attested in hungarian chronicle. i have it on a shelf, if you want i can quote. you might wanna check out a library or something though, cause it's a big book.

and uhm, yes... as far as voting is concerned, in a democracy everyone counts the same. cause the vote is secret and no-one writes on the vote bulletin 'i have this much money so my vote counts twice'. while i don't deny that as far as politics and governments are concerned, there are many corrupt officials (not just in romania, just about everywhere, including hungary) you can't possibly imagine that the majority of romanian people who had been oppressed for centuries by the hungarians, voted to stay in hungary. now THAT would be naivety.

[Laura_]

If one applies this logic, you could also say that e.g. some parts of the USA should be part of Mexico, as they have a Mexican majority! You see, this doesn´t work out...

to me it is not the same thing,the relationship between the countries , on one hand Romania and Hungary on the other hand US and Mexico is different...were there any discussions between us and mexico on this???
there are cases(like the transilvania issue)where this is a possible valid reason  and other cases (your example)where this simply does not work ,it is nonsensical...to me the sense is given by the context of the whole situation(including wars,state politicsetc ,even geographical positionetc etc)
my humble opinion again:)Laura

[Laura_]

Do you really believe that in a democracy everybody´s vote counts the same?!? Not if Romania is still that corrupt as it was back then! That´s so naive, I can´t believe it!!!

yes  i think that in a democracy everybody's vote counts the same or at least should count the same  ...corruption persists almost everywhere,more or less of course and i have the feeling that Romania is less corrupted today,you may call me anything you want  ,the fact is that i live here and i can notice a progress.in that sense ...maybe i'm being too optimistic but i really believe in this progress...Laura

[Laura_]

sadly, Romanians saw that people in Hungary were richer (and, thanks God, we still are!), so they decided to move where the wealth was...

indeed,on one hand , what they had found was wealth(and i stated here you were right)this was extremely important for Transilvania's economical progress),but this was reserved for the Hungarian nobles and on the other hand they also found (and i'm sure you know this sad thing)perssecution,oppression,slavery,lack of rights, humility,poverty etc which were ,unfortunately ,reserved for them,all the romanian peasants(or maybe you think that was exactly what they deserved for being so and so)... you say that all those unfortunate and poor people moved towards hungarian wealth and,at the same time towards their own poverty,humiliation ,...
Anabel,with all the respect ,i can't agree with your statement:(
my humble opinion...Laura:)

[Laura_]

people in Hungary were richer (and, thanks God, we still are!)

do you really think this "money argument" is that important to everyone???
i mean it is,to a great extent , important but it shouldn't be vitally important in our case cause it can easily lead to a sort of "wealth discrimination"between the hungarian people and the romanians...you know ,the discussion on the rights to vote,the vote of the rich,the vote of the poor,the importance of one's vote due to social status etcetc,ilya explained this better!!
is money that important to you Anabel because you are always mentioning it???  

Hungary is richer than Romania...hmm...economically yes,geographically no  


it's too late ,i'm tired and i cannot think anymore...Good Night everyone:) Laura

[Linnea]

Ladies, it seems like as if this disscusion will lead to nothing... I think both Hungary and Romania are very interesting countries with rich cultures, beautiful landscapes (OK, Transylvania is beautiful, but Hungary still holds some of the most beautiful parts of Eastern Europe, I think), nice people, fascinating languages etc.! It is (sadly) always difficult when there is a mixed population in a country, but maybe this will get better in the future!

[Linnea]

and some of Romania:

Transylvania (or the bone of contention  )


Bukarest


Danube Delta

[palimpsest]

A family rides a horse drawn cart past a campaign billboard for presidential candidate Frunda Gyorgy, of the Hungarian Democratic Union party, that reads "Future without Visa" in Targu Mures, 440 kilometers (275 miles) northwest of Bucharest, Romania, Nov. 8, 2000. Heading into a presidential election on Nov. 26th., many Romanians are hoping that the nation's next president will lead Romania towards membership with European Union, and the prosperity that "being in Europe" has come to represent. (AP Photo/Vadim Ghirda)




Hungary's women's handball team, right, blocks the ball as Romania, left, shoots in preliminaries handball competition at the Olympic Games in Sydney Saturday, September 23, 2000. The final score was 21-21 all. (AP Photo/Themba Hadebe)




A fisherman gathers dead fish caught from the River Tisza at Kiskoere, some 105 kms east of Budapest, Hungary on Tuesday, February 10, 2000, after cyanide polluted water of the river reached the region. Cyanide has polluted the water of Tisza and exterminated the total animal world of the river on its reach in Hungary after a leakage from a gold mine in Romania January 30th. (AP Photo by Sandor H. Szabo)





Foreign ministers Mihai-Razvan Ungureanu of Romania, Ferenc Somogyi of Hungary, and Vuk Draskovic of Serbia, from left, smile during the opening ceremony of a common border crossing of the three neighbouring countries in Kuebekhaza, near Szeged, southern Hungary, Saturday, May 28, 2005. (AP Photo/MTI, Gyoergy Nemeth)






Romanian Prime Minister Calin Popescu-Tariceanu, right, and his Hungarian counterpart Ferenc Gyurcsany exchange documents after they signed agreements during the first ever joint session of the Romanian and the Hungarian governments in the Victoria Palace in Buchareest, Romania, Thursday, Oct. 20, 2005. (AP Photo/MTI, Tamas Kovacs)





Ethnic Hungarian girls, dressed in national costumes, listen to the Easter Sunday mass in Korosfoe, Romania, Sunday, March 27, 2005. In many parts of Romania members of the Hungarian minority still celebrate Easter in the traditional way. (AP Photo / MTI, Tibor Olah)

[ilyala]

So is Dracula Hungarian or Romanian guys?

lol, that depends.

if you're talking about vlad dracula 'the impaler, vlad 3rd, ruler of wallachia, he was romanian.

if you're talking about bram stoker's vampire count, he has a line in the book in which he claims to come from a legendary hungarian family ... but he's transylvanian... which could mean he's of mixed blood

[dboro]

Thanks to Linnea & Palimpsest for this sublime conclusion. I've found this topic today and sometimes I felt really sad because of its tone. Thanks again,

Daniel Borovi
[a Hungarian living in Hungary]

[dvoretzky]

I am sure that in 10-15 years, when Romania is firmly an EU member, Transylvania won't be an issue anymore. No more borders, no more animosity... Look what happened between France and Germany, do they care now who owns Alsace and Lorraine?

[Nathalie]

Wuh..wat a long thread! If I write somethng, what is already written, then I apologize, but its really a long one and as usual Im outta time...
Well, firstly, we Hungarians are not "angry" (anymore:)) for the lost territories, history is not about justice and we not gonna be like Plaestinians or something, hehe, we live with it: but we definitely feel terrible when e.g. in Serbia we hear (every week!!) an other beating or attacking of Hungarians and graffitis on Hungarian houses (whch were built before ages!!) like go home or something...It is bad, when we hear in the news, that Hungarians were attacked just because they stick to the land of their ancestors-it is anger of course, but it doesn't mean, we gonna fight. I would call it sadness.

that's totally different. my hungarian grandmother married a romanian patriot and became quite a patriot herself

hehe, my husband is a foreigner too, but they always call me in his family "yeah, your proud Hungarian wife"-but my husband is from very very far...not in the neighbourhood:-) Now even he is infected by me and we wanna settle here..well...God knows, it depends on Hungary's economic situation :-?

It was the most Hungarian parts of Hungary considering traditions, language, etc.
Well...certainly not the MOST, but ONE OF. here are Hungarians in the end of Moldavia as well,c alled "chango" (dont ask me their Romanian name, i dunno), they still use an ancient, archaic form of Hungarian, so they kinda like the apple of the eye of every Hungarian who cares with culture and history, because we definitely must preserve their heritage. They live also near to..hmm..Klezs? Do I say it right? And yes, Transsylvania was centerpoint of a Hungarian painting school (what gave famous painters to the world) and Nagyvarad (I also dunno the Rumanian name, sorry) was a cultural center for artists and poets and writers, etc..Till their work lives in our heart, their places will live to in them.
Passport doesn't matter here.