King Louis XII

[ilyala]

louis arranged the divorce with pope alexander 6th, the nasty rodrigo borgia. at the time rodrigo's son, cesare borgia, was looking to marry high on the social ladder, but of course him being the pope's bastard son didn't help things. louis promised the pope a high marriage for his son, if the pope arranged the anullment of his marriage. louis got his wish and cesare was made duke of valentinois (i think) and married into the albret family. he left his wife weeks after the marriage and never saw her again. 

[umigon]

That's true, ilyala, Louis promised Charlotte d'Albret to Cesare in exchange for the annullment. But it would have been granted anyway... Jeanne did defend herself and, unlike Catherine of Aragon, she did recognise the authority of the group of cardenals appointed to debate the validity of her marriage. She maintained that the marriage had been consummated and many arguements followed, as Louis XII said that he hadn't. She defended herself bravely and with intelligence but she knew that Louis would have his way. She just did it in order to defend her honour not really to prevent the marriage from being annulled. She believed in the marriage as a saintly sacrament but no one was happy with it: Louis wanted heirs and wasn't physically or intellectually attracted by her, Jeanne loved him in the medieval sense, but she prefered a retired life and her marriage had proven barren, Anne was a childless widow ... There was no way the marriage wouldn't have been annulled...

[ilyala]

at that point in time the pope decided whether the marriage was to be anulled or not. and if the pope had interest to anull it, he did. i don't think anyone every argued about it, even if people felt sorry for the poor wife being left behind.

also, at that point in time the papal corruption had reached quite a peak. alexander 6th in particular is probably the most corrupt pope ever (or at least as far as proven corruption goes, maybe others just covered their tracks better). the anullment of a marriage had nothing to do with the word of god and everything to do with where the pope's interest lied. in this case the pope's interest was to marry his son into a good family. he did so and i'm sure he couldn't care less whether the marriage was valid or not.

[umigon]

I wasn't saying anyone- except Jeanne- cared about the real validity of the marriage (that's why I said that she was fighting for her marriage although she knew it would be annulled anyway).

And about the Pope, yes and no. It was the Pope's wish to marry his son into a royal family, but he also feared Louis's pretensions on Italy. Finally, it was settled that Ceasar would marry Charlotte and Louis wouldn't try to interfere in papal states. But even if this hadn't been achieved, a great sum of money could have helped Alexander to grant the anullment. It was not only Ceasar's marriage that determined the annullment. The fact that they didn't have any children was also very very important.

[ilyala]

actually cesare was created a french duke and at first helped louis with his italian wars. but he changed sides so many times, it's hard to keep track. cesare wanted full domination of the italian states and the pope was helping him because that would sort of mean papal domination, and that was an old dream for all popes.

i wasn't trying to contradict you, i'm just tryign to make things clear. there were many marriages happening between relatives at that time and the popes granted dispensations and then the same popes (or their successors) granted the annullments for various reasons (no children, not getting along, better match available). it was the way it was back then.

[aron]

Anne de Bretagne (1477-1514) was married to Charles VIII and Louis XII. I have read in different articles that she had 8 or 9 children (pregnancies) during her marriage with Louis XII.
I can only find 4 children from this marriage.

With Charles VIII:

-1 Charles Orland °Plessis-lès-Tours 10/10/1492 - + Amboise 16/12/1495
-2 son fils, stillborn,  Courcelles aug 1493
-3 daughter, stiilborn,  mar 1495
-4 Charles °Plessis-lès-Tours 08/09/1496 - + idem 02/10/1496
-5 François °1497 - + Montils-lès-Tours 1497
-6 Anne °born/died + 20/03/1498

With Louis XII:

-7 Claude ° Blois 13/10/1499 - + idem 20/07/1524, reine de France
-8 son °born/died + Blois 21/01/1503
-9 Renée ° Blois 25/10/1510 - + Montargis 12/06/1575, duchesse de Ferrare
-10 son °born/died Blois jan 1512

Who can help me getting this list up to date?
Aron

[bell_the_cat]

Hi Aron!

I don't know of any other children, but Anne had a singularly unproductive career - it's very sad....

It's quite remarkable that her daughter Renee survived until 1575 (she survived most of Claude's grandchildren).

[Prince_Lieven]

With Louis XII she had further pregnancies in 1500, 1508 and 1509. I don't know if they were miscarriages or stillbirths though.

http://geneweb.inria.fr/roglo?lang=en;i=65151

[Naslednik Norvezhskiy]

Even though the engagement was canceled, I find it amazing that Anne was able to formally engage her daughter Claude, heiress to Brittany, to Archduke Charles (V) in the Treaty of Blois, when it was so clearly against her husband's interests as King of France, as it would mean a Habsburg-Burgundian encirclement of France. Did she just ignore her husband and go against his will or was Claude somehow "mama's special girl", as she was heiress to Anne's own duchy?

[An Ard Rí]

Hi Aron!

I don't know of any other children, but Anne had a singularly unproductive career - it's very sad....

It's quite remarkable that her daughter Renee survived until 1575 (she survived most of Claude's grandchildren).

Renée de France is a most interesting French Royal lady,though she has been largely forgotten .Madame Renée was somewhat eclipsed by her haughty Huguenot cousin,Jeanne d'Albret,Queen of Navarre & outlived her by a few years .

Renée & Jeanne fell out in 1570 much to the delight of Catherine de Médicis .

[An Ard Rí]

Even though the engagement was canceled, I find it amazing that Anne was able to formally engage her daughter Claude, heiress to Brittany, to Archduke Charles (V) in the Treaty of Blois, when it was so clearly against her husband's interests as King of France, as it would mean a Habsburg-Burgundian encirclement of France. Did she just ignore her husband and go against his will or was Claude somehow "mama's special girl", as she was heiress to Anne's own duchy?

It would have caused a great difficulty for the next French King .The Queen was the major advocate of the Habsburg Union,Louis appeared to be in agreement with the Queen,he was secretly double dealing .
Behind the Queen's back he had his will changed & had a clause included which directed that Claude marry François d'Angoulême & another clause prohibited her from leaving the Kingdom until she married François d'Angoulême .Another part of his will also named the Queen as Regent with her sworn enemy,Louise de Savoie also having a prominent role in the Regency Council .

The King was also hoping that Queen Anne would give birth to a son,this he believed would undo most of the treaty .


Louis XII sent Georges Cardinal d'Amboise as his Chief Negotiator for the Treaty of Blois .The Habsburgs agreed to acknowledge French Soverignty over Burgundy & Flanders & also pledged to support Louis XII's investiture of Milan.The French offered Brittany,Blois,Nevers,Artois as territories for Claude & Charles,with Burgundy,Asti & Milan (should Louis die without a male heir).