Author Topic: Scientists reopen the Romanov mystery  (Read 5217 times)

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Sunny

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Scientists reopen the Romanov mystery
« on: July 17, 2004, 09:37:43 AM »
From the telegraph:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/12/wtsar12.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/12/ixworld.html

"The fate of the Russian royal family was plunged into renewed controversy yesterday after scientists cast doubt over British DNA tests on bones recovered from a mass grave"

But Dr Alec Knight, who conducted the study with colleagues at Stanford, the Russian Academy of Sciences, Eastern Michigan University and Los Alamos National Laboratory, claimed: "Our team has what appears to be overwhelming evidence to reject the conclusion of the identity of the remains as those of the Russian royal family."

Dr Knight and his team questioned the results, raised "forensic irregularities" and conducted an independent DNA analysis of the preserved finger of the late Grand Duchess Elisabeth - sister of Tsarina Alexandra, one of the 1918 victims.

Dr Knight said:"We have uncovered irregularities and inconsistencies (and very strange goings-on) in the case, and the results claimed by the DNA tests are essentially impossible.

"We are not questioning the integrity of Dr Gill or Dr Parsons but rather the actions of those in Russia who had control of all the samples, concluded at the outset that they were the royal family, acted with secrecy and deception, distributed the samples to the labs in other countries, participated in the analyses, wrote a report concluding identity, and then voted on acceptance of that report."

Sunny

Dashkova

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Re: Scientists reopen the Romanov mystery
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2004, 10:06:38 AM »
Thanks for posting this, Sunny,  though I am surprised that this would be "news" in the UK.

Another part of this article states:

"Though Dr Knight's trip was funded by the Russian Expert Commission Abroad - a group of scholars who challenge the assertion that the bones are royal - he maintains that his experiments were unbiased.

"[The Commission Abroad] didn't support the DNA tests or do the science," he said. "They just bought me the plane ticket and got me the sample. They had no control over the work."


I cannot help but question these findings based on who provided the sample in question.  The Russian Expert Commission Abroad doesn't think the bones are authentic, it only follows that they would make sure they got the results they wanted.

Once again, the suspicions about Russians never telling the truth are raised.  Considering the provenance of the sample used for these tests, I don't think anyone should take the findings any more serious than any other findings.

Sunny

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Re: Scientists reopen the Romanov mystery
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2004, 10:41:31 AM »

Dashkova, you are welcome. I'm not suprised, the Russian and English royal houses shared so many connections.

From the article:

"Dr Knight and his team questioned the results, raised "forensic irregularities" and conducted an independent DNA analysis of the preserved finger of the late Grand Duchess Elisabeth - sister of Tsarina Alexandra, one of the 1918 victims.

Since the 1982 opening of Elisabeth's coffin in Jerusalem, the finger had been preserved in a reliquary at the New York home of Bishop Anthony Grabbe, the president of the now-disbanded Orthodox Palestine Society. Crucially, tests on the finger failed to match the tsarina's DNA reported by Dr Gill."

" But Dr Knight said the case against the original analysis had strengthened since the paper in the Annals. "Calling us names, as Dr Gill has done, will not help their fatally flawed position."

Sunny


Dashkova

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Re: Scientists reopen the Romanov mystery
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2004, 10:53:07 AM »
I'm sorry, I apparently I didn't make my last post very clear.  What I meant was that this isn't a new story -- worldwide - it has been some months and I was just expressing surprise that the Telegraph had just picked it up.

Yes, the two royal families in question are closely allied, though I don't think that is as significant to the population of either country these days, as before.

Do you happen to know where I could read about the provenance of the finger that was used?

rskkiya

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Re: Scientists reopen the Romanov mystery
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2004, 08:00:29 PM »
Dashkova

Isn't that the "famous manicured finger" supposedly found and presented, along with some soil "full of blood," 1 or 2 small bottles of human fat and "ash," to the Orthodox Church of Russia Abroad in Brussels?

I thought that the White's first investigater Soloviev (?) (so sorry) discovered the material and tried to give it to The ex Dowager Empress Marie  ...She refused to see him.

R.

Offline Antonio_P.Caballer

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Re: Scientists reopen the Romanov mystery
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2004, 09:01:19 PM »
Well, it´s the first time i hear something like this. I hope there´s someone here with a better knowledge on this matter than me, for i cannot understand how the DNA test of the Empress do not match that of her own sister...

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Scientists reopen the Romanov mystery
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2004, 04:37:12 PM »
Antonio: the most reasonable explanation for this is that the finger thought to be Ella's is really that of her companion, Sister Varvara.

The Victorian mtDNA sequence has been widely studied from donors living and deceased - and so we know what Ella's should look like. This sample did not match, so it is likely a case of misindentification. On one side, we have Katherine DeSilva (Princess of Yugoslavia), Prince Philip, the Duke of Fife - and Alexandra and three of her daughters - all with matching mtDNA. On the other, we have the most recent report with - the finger reputed to be Ella's.

Now, if the recent scientists studying this case wanted to discredit the earlier findings because the DNA didn't match because of problems with sequencing from dead people's samples, why couldn't they find one matrilenial descedant with mtDNA that matched the finger? I'll tell you why - all the living descendants' mtDNA that has been tested matches the Koptyaki remains of Alexandra and her daughters!

Offline KayTanaka

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Re: Scientists reopen the Romanov mystery
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2004, 02:34:47 AM »
Dear Antonio, As I wrote you, there is an emptiness in the side-chapel of St. Catherine the Martyr. It is much different there than near the other burials and tombstones in the cathedral.  I know that many both in Russia and elsewhere have reasons to doubt the validity of both the tests and the remains.  I can only say that from my own experiences there is something strange happening and that it has been haunting me for years.  Many Blessings, Kay

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Scientists reopen the Romanov mystery
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2004, 08:13:20 PM »
Kay, I was wondering what you are talking about?

Helen

Quote
Dear Antonio, As I wrote you, there is an emptiness in the side-chapel of St. Catherine the Martyr. It is much different there than near the other burials and tombstones in the cathedral.  I know that many both in Russia and elsewhere have reasons to doubt the validity of both the tests and the remains.  I can only say that from my own experiences there is something strange happening and that it has been haunting me for years.  Many Blessings, Kay