Prince Andrew of Greece and his family

[Janet_W.]

I agree with you, Martyn.

An elderly friend of mine (who has since passed on) and I used to have this very same conversation. Her final comment always was, "Well, who else could Elizabeth have married?" And I felt that was a good point! By the 1940s there just seemed to be a dearth of eligible royals for the diligent, highly eligible young princess. Then consider that, as a youth, Phillip was undeniably attractive . . . at least in a physical sense. (And perhaps at that time he had the good sense to hide his tendency toward rampant foot-in-mouth disease.)

A similar conversation about "looking for affection elsewhere" used to go on with my family re: Franklin Delano Roosevelt and his much-slandered wife Eleanor. At one point, and to the consternation of my parents who were gossiping about Eleanor's supposed affairs-- both heterosexual and homosexual--I announced, "Good for her, and I hope so!"  

[Robert_Hall]

Well, let's face it, the Princess Royal is probably the butchest of the lot of them. No disrespect, I admire her more than any of them. She has an honest sense of duty and hard work/effort. Even if it may have come late & a bit unpolished.
The story of Phillip's "love child" has been around for ages. I have not paid much attention to it, filing with "so what?' issues.  I did not think anyone was even talking about it anymore. In good time, the same will be said about Prince Harry, I suppose.
I have always thought Phillip's sisters far more interesting that he was/is.  Rather sad because of events we have not really a great deal about them available in English.
Cheers,
Robert

[Eurohistory]

Andrea and Alice of Greece with their children in 1921 (from left to right: Margarita, Philip, Cecilia, Sophie and Theodora)


Margarita (1905-1981), married to Berthold to Hohenlohe

Theodora (1906-1969), married Gottfried of Baden

Cecilia (1911-1937), married Georg Donatus of Hesse

Sophie (1914-2001), married Christoph of Hesse and later prince Georg Wilhelm of Hanover

This photo was sent by Princess Alice to many a relative and it was not taken in 1921, but in 1928 for their Silver Wedding Anniversary.  I own the copy Alice of Greece sent to her cousin Patricia Ramsay.

Arturo Beéche

[bookworm857158367]

Some have said that Elizabeth has looked elsewhere for affection!  There has been lots of speculation about Philip's extra-curricular activity - so to speak - but one fact that has been asserted is that he has a natural son who, I believe was conceived before his marriage.
With regard to Elizabeth, I find the idea that she may have sought solace elsewhere incompatible with what we know of her as a person; her concept of duty, royal or otherwise is fundamental to her character.
All this is bit off topic but I will conclude by saying that Philip is renowned in the UK for his tactlessness (which has taken on a racist form at times) and for being a hard taskmaster to his male children and staff.  It is said, with some truth I think, that Princess Anne most closely resembles her father in terms of temperament - more so than her siblings.  Quite frightening really.......

I find this site rather interesting:

www.throneout.com/royal_affairs.asp

It claims that Prince Andrew was actually fathered by someone known as Henry Herbert, Earl of Carnarvon or Lord Porchester, and Prince Edward's biological father was someone called Baron Patrick Plunket. There are photos of both men on the site that look quite similar to the respective princes. I've never seen much resemblance between Prince Andrew and Prince Philip. Edward looks a bit like his mother.  If Philip behaved the way some stories say, who could have blamed the poor Queen for finding love elsewhere?

But who knows? The webmaster of the site has an agenda. He wants to abolish the British monarchy and wants all of the Royal Family to submit to DNA testing.

[Martyn]

Good for you Janet too!  I agree with you Robert about Anne - she has more testosterone than all the other male Windsor siblings put together.  Her penchant for speeding and her savage dogs that kill other peoples pets (and which seem to survive with impunity) strike a discordant note with her conscientious approach to charity work.  I recently saw a TV interview with Anne during the Olympics in which she discussed Britain's bid to host the Olympics; although she, like Andrew and Edward (and excepting Charles), have made an attempt to ditch the strange and contrived amnner of speaking that used to afflict them, the interview was permeated with Anne's overwhelming sense of her own superiority.
I was a little shy of naming Lord Porchester for fear of offending anyone, but now it is out in the open, well he is rumoured to be Andrew's father.  I have never heard that Edward had a different father.  Lord Porchester, later Earl of Caernarvon, was I believe the Queen's racing/stud manager - am I right in thinking that he is dead now?
Certainly, Andrew and Edward resemble the Queen more so than Philip but I just don't buy the theory that she has sought solace elsewhere.
To get back to the thread, interesting though this discussion is (although some may call us gossipy again) I agree with Robert in that I think that Philip's sisters are a little overlooked; it would be great for something new to be published about them (probably unlikely whilst he lives...)

[Annie]

Her dogs kill people's pets?    And no one does anything about it? That makes me angry. In America when you have a vicious dog who kills people's pets it usually belongs to some trashy drunken redneck who gets in trouble and the dog is taken away. I don't believe in animals being put in the pound for no reason, but in those cases, it would be the same as jail for a vicious murderous human so that's where they'd belong. Generally the people I have known who owned vicious dogs who go around killing other people's pets have been, well, I don't think I can describe them in polite terms Many times they have trained the dog to be mean and think it's funny.

[Robert_Hall]

Yes, Anne's dog does have a nasty reputation. The first attact was in Windsor park. Her dog was unleashed.
She was fined. The dog put on warning.
The second [that I know of] happened at Sandringham. The dog murdered the Queen's favourite corgi. Now, that breed is also a bit nasty & a lot of people would probably say the little bitch [female dog] deserved what she got. However that may be, it happened on the Queen's property and I think the guilty paprty was remanded to "bog therapy".  Britain is a nation of pet lovers, and are loathe to put any pet down. {hence the wrenching problems over the upcoming ban on blood sports].
Robert

[Annie]

I don't believe in putting animals to sleep either, it makes me sad and sick. But in the case of a violent dog who has a rep for killing other animals, couldn't he be considered the same as a human killer and at least locked up?

There was a vicious Rottweiler on my brother's street, and his owners thought they were tough and mean and trained him that way. We were all having a  Mother's Day cookout on my brother's back deck when that dog entered the yard and picked up my brother's wife's cat in his mouth and took off! This upset us all, there were little kids there, a pregnant lady, and my sister in law had raised the cat from an orphan kitten with a milk bottle. My other brother gave chase, beating the dog with a wooden board as he ran. By the time he dropped the cat it was too late The racket and noise had drawn over a dozen neighbors to come running, and many of them had tales of that dog's viciousness and how several other pets, including cats, chihuahuas and terriers had either been killed or gone missing. They called the police and all stood there telling him the story. They warned the guy and said if the dog was caught on the loose again he'd be taken away and put down as a vicious dog and he, the owner, would face charges. I don't think he even deserved the second chance with the body of the cat and all the neigbhor's testimonies. It was a very disturbing incident. Not only is it sad for the pets, couldn't this dog very well do the same to a small child?

[Robert_Hall]

The PR was severly fined for the park incident and the dog ordered to be kept leashed at all times [in public I would guess]. The other incident- well the Queen could have done worse, but it was on her property and she is the Queen !!
Anne did show up in court personally and took her punishment, if one could consider writing a cheque punishment enough.
Yor Rottwieler [sp.?] well, one of my dear buddieshad one as well. Very intimading animal, but in real life she was a doll! A loving pushover. It is not so much the animal's fault, I think, it is what the owners do or do not do with them.
AS you all may well be aware, blood sports are causing a huge rift in England/Wales, and I personally destet them, but I have listened to both sides and honestly cannot blame anyone for being wrong. Just happy that I am not in the middle of that argument! However, dogs are trained to "hunt" The Romanovs had wolfhounds, did they still hunt wolves? Anne's dog, some type of bull terrier I think, what was he trained for? Protection ?
Hunting ?
Those corgis are useless as far as I am concerned, but they ammuse the Queen, if no one else.
I think Phillip has or had a tiny lapdog for indoors.
I think I also read that all of his sisters had the same breed.  That is foggy memory however, can't place where I read it or heard it. [Arturo may know].
Oh well, seriously off topic here !
Sorry,
Robert

[Annie]

A fine is no punishment to a rich person. I'm surprised the Queen wasn't madder about her pet. Yes I've heard all the fuss about the fox hunting, can't they still go through the motions without really killing? They can still dress up and go Talley Ho and ride and all that, maybe a fake fox?

I agree not all Rottweilers are bad, it is the owner. Around here Pit Bulls are bad too, always attacking other pets and humans too! People always say, it's not the aniimal's fault, it's the owner. That is true, all of us, including people, are products of our enviornment and the things we learn and are exposed to in our lives. But unfortunatley, at least here, the kind of person who chooses a Rottweiler or Pit Bull over another breed of dog is usually the kind of person who wants a mean dog and trains them to be that way:(

[Robert_Hall]

you are correct in that the PR's fine was no hardship. I think her actually showing up in court was a bit surprising.
And the dogs, we had the same problem with the pit bulls & Rottwiellers here [in SF]. I dot know what happened, but they all seem to be gone now, or at least moved to another area. This town is really too small for large dogs anyway.
The Sandringham incident, I was in England at the time, and a lot of people thought the Queen would have a regal fit. Well, she probably did, but she did not take it out on the dog !
The blood sports, it is interesting. Already banned in Scotland, seems to have done no harm. I do not know, I have heard so much from both sides. I just know blood sports have absolutely no attraction to me.  Even though I now spend more time in "the country" I still cannot get used to the shooting in the fall, or the horses racing accross the fields.  Picturesque, perhaps, but I do not think so.
Cheers,
Robert

[Ilana]

I always thought that Andrew looked alot like Alice Battenberg.

[Annie]

!
The blood sports, it is interesting. Already banned in Scotland, seems to have done no harm. I do not know, I have heard so much from both sides. I just know blood sports have absolutely no attraction to me.  Even though I now spend more time in "the country" I still cannot get used to the shooting in the fall, or the horses racing accross the fields.  Picturesque, perhaps, but I do not think so.
Cheers,
Robert

Oh I thought you were British!

I can't deal with blood sports either. I'm with you, and Felix Y. on that one. I get no pleasure in seeing something alive suddenly drop dead and stop living, who'd want to know they did that, those poor blank eyes looking up, the poor heart stopped, it's sad. I have uncles and cousins who are avid hunters and I've tried to see their side of it, but I just have to stay away, I want no part of it. My cat killed a squirrel that lived in my tree today, and I have been upset about it. I feel terrible. I can't believe he did it, they'd lived together for so long, even sitting on the picnic table together. I don't know why he suddenly turned on her. I know she had a nest high in my tree, I hope there aren't babies in it. Sorry to go far off topic.

On this topic I have a hard time imagining Lilibet as the sleeping around type, but I guess you never know.

[masha]

Lady Colin Campbell wrote a book called "Royal Marriages" over a decade ago which shed light on a lot of what the aristocracy supposedly knows about British royal family - including the Andrew/Edward paternity issues. But what I found most interesting was all the information about Prince Philip and his family. With all the negative publicity he receives along with his shortcomings - and yes this book does allude to his infidelities - P Philip really seems like an incredibly interesting and dynamic personlity.

His sisters are quite lovely in the photograph above, and while the latest biography on Princess Alice was interesting, it left me wanting to see/know more about her daughters are their families.  

Masha

[Martyn]

Anne's dog is/was a Staffordshire bull terrier, which is very much akin to pit bull terriers.
As they say, one law for the rich and one for the poor.....Other owners of dangerous/violent dogs are fined and their dogs are destroyed but of course an exception must be made for the Princess Royal.
Robert is quite right about the corgis - nasty, bad tempered with short legs and decidely not decorative - I don't understand the appeal.
Robert is equally right about the bloodsport issue here (not wanting to go too far off-topic), which is developing apace.  Everyone is waiting with baited breath to see whether the Royal Family, especially Charles and camilla (small c, Robert), will express a view on something that looks set to become illegal, namely fox-hunting.  C and C are big big fans of this particular form of antique barbarism which masquerades under the banner of preserving the countryside way of life.  Pish I say!
Interesting fact Robert, Philip having a lapdog - can't quite picture that....So his sisters all had the same breed of dog too?