What do you think happened to Amy Robsart Dudley?

[stacey]

AHA!! Now that IS interesting--Amy's coffin was opened and found to contain "only dust"?! I wonder how long it takes a body to be reduced to a handful of dust--this sounds very very suspicious!!

Methinks someone removed Amy's body from the coffin at a very early date (if she was ever in it to start with! :-/) and the question is: WHY?

Call me paranoid (go on, everybody does! ) but it sounds to me that somebody wanted to make sure that the body was never examined carefully--and why would anyone want to make sure of that, UNLESS something could be found that pointed to FOUL PLAY?!

And yes, it definitely sounds like something that would involve Cecil! It had to be somebody with a lot of clout, anyway!

[bell_the_cat]

AHA!! Now that IS interesting--Amy's coffin was opened and found to contain "only dust"?! I wonder how long it takes a body to be reduced to a handful of dust--this sounds very very suspicious!!

Methinks someone removed Amy's body from the coffin at a very early date (if she was ever in it to start with! :-/) and the question is: WHY?

Call me paranoid (go on, everybody does! ) but it sounds to me that somebody wanted to make sure that the body was never examined carefully--and why would anyone want to make sure of that, UNLESS something could be found that pointed to FOUL PLAY?!

And yes, it definitely sounds like something that would involve Cecil! It had to be somebody with a lot of clout, anyway!

I've read it takes 300 years for a body to reduce to dust
(it varies, obviously). Does Alison Weir say when the coffin was opened?

[Romanov_fan]

That is certainly interesting. It is possible her body could be completely dust after so many years, it is not impossible, although it is unfortunate. As for her death, it seems to me that it was either accidental, or suicide. I think accidental, because why was someone who is suicidal throw themself down a staircase like that, and anyway, suicide was disaproved of back then, even a cry for help type thing, in that she knew the staircase woudn't kill her, but maybe she would get attention. I don't doubt her being depressed, but there were other ways if she wanted to ensure it would work. Given that her husband was with the Queen of England, she had no children, and infidelity was out of the question then, she had no diversions, and every reason to be depressed, plus more if she was ill. So, if her illness was true, and the modern diagnosis was correct, then it could have been a an accident, anyway ambassador's reports were usually correct, at least most. They had good sources. But the servants detail is suspicious in every theory, sucide, murder, and accident. It it kind of reminds me over debates of Marilyn Monroe's death-was it suicide, murder, or accident?

[ilyala]

we have prehistorical skeletons out there, and yet a sixteenth century body turned to dust?  :-/

[bell_the_cat]

we have prehistorical skeletons out there, and yet a sixteenth century body turned to dust?  :-/

When it's very cold or very dry (Egypt!) the skeleton can survive for a long time, but in a temperate climate insects and maggots can do their work and reduce the skeleton to dust - or more probably soil. Here's something I found on the web:

"In 1868, a British surgeon examined a series of 350-year-old graves to see how the bodies had fared. Francis Haden studied the bodies buried at the St. Andrews, Holborn, burial ground while they were being disinterred to make way for a viaduct. Only putrid, unrecognizable contents remained of the buried in still-intact wooden or lead coffins. When the coffins were no longer intact or the bodies had been buried without coffins as in the plague pit, nothing remained except a few bones. As he said, "the body itself had dissapeared, and 'earth to earth' had been accomplished". More recently, a group of dental researchers found that the skull of younger adults remain intact longer thanthose of older people, no matter how long they have been buried. "

[nelly]

Apparently the coffin was opened in the 20th century.  Plenty of time for a body to go dust to dust.  

[Romanov_fan]

More than likely it isn't that suspicioious, as it seems likely that all the conditions for it to be dust were accomplished, of course it always depends, but it seems reasonable.

[neverdiplomatic]

Well, if we're going to accept that it was murder, my money would be on Cecil being the one who got the job done. He had to have known how disastrous it would be to have a Dudley on, or so close to the throne of England. Not to mention that day by day, Dudley was gaining more influence with the queen. If Amy had been permitted to die of natural causes, then Dudley COULD have possibly been an acceptable suitor. However, with Dudley 'infamed' by her death (as it were), he was completely and irrevocably removed from the list of possible consorts for Elizabeth. Let's face it; Cecil was DEFINITELY cold blooded enough to arrange the death of an innocent woman, especially a woman reputedly in deep despair over her husband's abandonment. And if that death would not only guarantee that Dudley could NEVER marry the queen, but also that he would be suspected by the people of England and lose favour in the court, well then, why not?
Personally, I find the fact that Elizabeth told the Spanish ambassador that Amy was either dead or very near so just DAYS prior to the actual murder (or suicide, or accident) to be highly suspicious. Who is to say that Cecil didn't whisper this rumour to her, knowing her well enough to assume that she would pass the tidbit on to at least one other courtier? Not to say that Elizabeth herself wasn't aware of the plan; she may very well have been if she truly had such a fear of marriage. By making it 'impossible' for her to marry Dudley in such a roundabout way, she could still keep him without being bound to him.
Just a theory, and one that has been thrown around MANY times, I know. But that's what I think.

[ilyala]

if amy was really dying and elizabeth knew about it, that would explain her statement to the spanish ambassador. yes, it could be interpreted as her knowing of the crime, but had she known i don't think she would brag about it to the spanish ambassador of all people! while she was a lot of things, elizabeth was not stupid. so either the ambassador is making things up or she was referring to amy's illness.

as for cecil, i would indeed not put it past him.

[Yseult]

There´s an intriguing point at this story: why Amy showed such a strange behavior in wishing to send all her servants to the fair at Abbington? Several of them refused to go, believing it was unfit to attend a fair on Sunday, but Amy insisted so much. It seems clear that she wanted to rest alone at Cumnor Place, but...why?

[ilyala]

There´s an intriguing point at this story: why Amy showed such a strange behavior in wishing to send all her servants to the fair at Abbington? Several of them refused to go, believing it was unfit to attend a fair on Sunday, but Amy insisted so much. It seems clear that she wanted to rest alone at Cumnor Place, but...why?

well, i can think of two reasons: the first one was discussed already, maybe she wanted to kill herself. the second one was that maybe she was expecting someone and she didn't want the servants to see that someone. let's say someone came to her to talk to her in big secret about her husband and queen elizabeth and ways to get him back, or maybe something else. let's say that someone demanded that he didn't want to be seen by anyone talking to amy. let's say that someone came with the sole purpose of killing her while luring her with some big important secret.

just a theory...  

[Romanov_fan]

Yes, but was she (although naive), really stupid to perhaps have discourse with someone in private that she might not have known about something that important. Perhaps she knew them, or him, and trusted. Perhaps she didn't and honoured their request for a meeting in private. If she trusted them, then she would want to have the discussion in private. If not, perhaps she assumes it was better to have it in private-which it was in theory. She could have been contemplating suicide, but that's not all that 16th century. And she might have figured the servants would be suspicious by sending them away. So it is hard to see her doing either one.

[PrincessIncarnate]

I do not know much about Amy Dudley, but what I speculate is that it was a suicide.  I know that terminal illnesses can cause severe depression in people and especially if she had been isolated from her husband. She may have felt hopeless, weak, and ineffective as a wife.

Do we know how many people commited suicide during this time period however?

[Kimberly]

I somehow doubt that they kept records but I may be pleasantly surprised.

[PrincessIncarnate]

During this time wasn't it considered a mortal sin and eternal damnation if one commited suicide? Maybe that kept the rates low...?