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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Class-breaching marriages
« on: December 08, 2005, 07:36:12 AM »
Hi all.  ;) I just wanted to start a thread about the various class-breaching marriages that seemed almost prevalent in Tudor times. I mean, look at these examples:

-Margaret Plantagenet m. Sir Richard Pole, 22 September 1494.
*This marriage certainly seems odd - a Plantagenet princess and a mere knight. Then again, I think the main reason was to 'neutralise' Margaret, so that she didn't marry a more ambitious husband who might press her very definite claims to the throne.

-Sir Thomas Boleyn m. Lady Elizabeth Howard, 1500.
*Wasn't this considered class breaching? Thomas was a mere knight, albeit a star on the rise, but Elizabeth was a Howard!

-Edmund Dudley m. Elizabeth Grey, Lady L'Isle, c.1501.
*Dudley was Henry VII's tax collector, Elizabeth was a peeress in her own right, with connections to the Mowbrays and Elizabeth Woodville's family. It was through this that the son of this marriage, John Dudley, was later made Lord L'Isle, before further honours were bestowed. Elizabeth was probably an heiress - was this a reward for loyal service for Edmund from his king?

-Cecily Plantagenet m. Thomas Kyme, January 1504.
*Cecily, younger sister of Queen Elizabeth of York, had been married firstly to Henry VII's half uncle, John Welles, Viscount Welles, and born him two short lived children. After his death, she married Kyme, and was banished from court. She died on the Isle of Wight.

-Thomas Grey, Marquess of Dorset m. Margaret Wotton, 1509.
*Thomas was the grandson of Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret was the daughter of one Robert Wotton.

-Lord Robert Dudley m. Amy Robstart, 1550.
*Robert was the son of the Lord Protector, Amy the daughter of a knight.

-Thomas Howard, Duke of Norfolk m. Margaret Audley, 10 December 1558.
*Surely class breaching?? Thomas was a Duke, and Margaret was the daughter of a mere knight, though her mother was a Grey.

-Jane Dormer m. the Duke de Feria.

-Lady Mary Grey m. Thomas Keyes, 1563.
*I think Elizabeth exiled them from court, didn't she?

I hope this thread will be interesting. Perhaps the likes of Margaret Audley, Amy Robstart and Margaret Wotton were heiresses, albeit untitled ones.

;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Prince_Lieven »
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umigon

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2005, 08:46:01 AM »
I read somewhere that Amy's father, John Robsart, was a rich landowner, although not a noble one.


Mary Grey and Thomas Keyes were exiled and forced to live separated, but Mary was defiant towards Elizabeth's orders. As her sister Catherine had before her, Mary died disgraced, aged 33 and childless.
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2005, 08:49:38 AM »
Thanks Umigon.  ;) Margaret Audley was probably an heiress too, since her mother was the daughter of Thomas Grey, Lord Dorset, Elizabeth Woodville's grandson, so could probably afford a good dowry.
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2005, 10:14:17 AM »
Then you have the Kings'... Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville, Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn/Jane Seymour/Catherine Howard/Katherine Parr ;)
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2005, 11:16:00 AM »
Yes, I was going to mention Henry's wives - didn't anyone at the time ever comment on how odd it was that of 6 wives, only two were royal?

And we all know what a ruckus Edward IV's marriage made!
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2005, 11:21:02 AM »
Then there is Mary-Rose's marriage to Charles Brandon..gosh it really WAS fashionable ;)
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2005, 11:24:34 AM »
 ;D And Jacquetta de Luxembourg and Richard Woodville . . .  ::)
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bell_the_cat

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2005, 11:29:14 AM »
Frances Brandon and her stepmother Catherine Willoughby both married servants!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2005, 11:32:13 AM »
Yes, that's right! And so many of the Woodvilles did so - Catherine Woodville and Henry Stafford, John Woodville and the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk etc.
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bell_the_cat

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2005, 11:36:10 AM »
It was like "Upstairs Downstairs" ;D
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2005, 11:38:06 AM »
BTW, Katherine Neville was about 60 when John Woodville married her, but desribed hilariously by Woodville adherents as 'a slip of a girl'.  ;D ;D
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ilyala

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2005, 12:27:44 PM »
what about my favorite unequal marriage of all times? katherine of valois and owen tudor?  ;D
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2005, 12:40:05 PM »
Hmmmn did they actually get married though ;)
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ilyala

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2005, 12:42:59 PM »
i think that even if they didn't technically, they lived together long enough to be considerred married :P. i'm open minded ;D
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Class-breaching marriages
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2005, 12:44:56 PM »
And me ;D Have you read "Crown in Candlelight" Ilyala?
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