Author Topic: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen  (Read 132633 times)

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Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #180 on: April 24, 2009, 04:07:10 PM »
I´m becoming more and more impressed about Antonia...I always thought about her as the not very fair mother-in-law to Missy of Romania. But now I´m learning about the young infanta she was, really attached to her native country and her family. I´m glad she was marry for love. May I suppose she had a happy marriage?

Hi Yseult!
Yes, Antonia married for love. Leopold had been here in 1858, 1859 and 1860 and they were together during a long time before they became engaged. Leopold was very sweet to Antonia and that I know of, only once, when the doctors told her she could not risk having more children, did he try something very brief out of their marriage. Antonia was not young anymore but she reacted in a way that made Leopold ask for her forgiveness right away. She wanted to come back to Portugal risking all the judgements by family and press alike. After all, she told him, she was in Sigmaringen only because of Leopold. Hers ons had grown and all the other people she loved were in Portugal.
If King Luis and all their family had not died before Leopold, Antonia would had returned to Portugal in old age. But there was nobody left and she (like King Luis himself) did not get along with Queen Mother Maria Pia of Savoy's hot temper.
Missy did not like Antonia. It was from the beginning. Maybe because Antonia treated Ferdinand and his things like you would treat a child. And Missy was much more mature than Ferdinand, of course. They would had benefited from becoming friendly. It's a pity they didn't.


«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline Yseult

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #181 on: April 24, 2009, 04:11:30 PM »
. Leopold was very sweet to Antonia and that I know of, only once, when the doctors told her she could not risk having more children, did he try something very brief out of their marriage. Antonia was not young anymore but she reacted in a way that made Leopold ask for her forgiveness right away.

Please...what do you mean? Maybe Leopold was unfaithful to Antonia...?
Another point...I supposed Antonia has been in good terms with Maria Pia. Once I read after king Luiz death Antonia wrotte a great number of lovely letters to Maria Pia, her brother´s widow...

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #182 on: April 24, 2009, 04:17:04 PM »
. Leopold was very sweet to Antonia and that I know of, only once, when the doctors told her she could not risk having more children, did he try something very brief out of their marriage. Antonia was not young anymore but she reacted in a way that made Leopold ask for her forgiveness right away.

Please...what do you mean? Maybe Leopold was unfaithful to Antonia...?
Another point...I supposed Antonia has been in good terms with Maria Pia. Once I read after king Luiz death Antonia wrotte a great number of lovely letters to Maria Pia, her brother´s widow...

Yes, he was unfaithful once after long abstinence and begged for forgiveness and never did it again. You must place yourself in those days: no contraception and what could you do after being told by the doctor you could not risk to have babies?

And Antonia did write nice letters to Maria Pia. She was a lady. Those letters were robbed from the Royal archives sometime between 1928 and 2000. But I assume they were very friendly. Maria Pia was all that was left for Antonia from her old days. Antonia was lost after Luis died. She just slowly faded away.


«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline Yseult

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #183 on: April 24, 2009, 04:29:33 PM »


Yes, he was unfaithful once after long abstinence and begged for forgiveness and never did it again. You must place yourself in those days: no contraception and what could you do after being told by the doctor you could not risk to have babies?

And Antonia did write nice letters to Maria Pia. She was a lady. Those letters were robbed from the Royal archives sometime between 1928 and 2000. But I assume they were very friendly. Maria Pia was all that was left for Antonia from her old days. Antonia was lost after Luis died. She just slowly faded away.
[/quote]

I understand! I place myself easily in those days. It must have been very hard for both Leopold and Antonia. And I think I understand also the bond between Antonia and the widow of her beloved brother Luiz. I believe Antonia was almost dying from "saudade"...saudade about her country but also about the "old times", when her father and brothers were alive...

Offline Veronica

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #184 on: April 24, 2009, 04:46:25 PM »

 Her father's new bride was mocked in Lisbon as a minor Opera singer whose photos in shorts and tights were for sale at the local photographic houses.


I don't want to go off topic here, but I read this and remembered I had a photograph of Elise Hensler in tights.
In 1860, she played the part of "Oscar", a masculine character in the opera "Un ballo", in the city of Porto.
I understand why princess Antonia didn't like her, it was a natural feeling. She was not an "equal", and plus she was wearing her mother things...


Offline Laura_

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #185 on: April 25, 2009, 06:04:16 PM »


larger version:


Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #186 on: April 25, 2009, 10:08:16 PM »

 Her father's new bride was mocked in Lisbon as a minor Opera singer whose photos in shorts and tights were for sale at the local photographic houses.


I don't want to go off topic here, but I read this and remembered I had a photograph of Elise Hensler in tights.
In 1860, she played the part of "Oscar", a masculine character in the opera "Un ballo", in the city of Porto.
I understand why princess Antonia didn't like her, it was a natural feeling. She was not an "equal", and plus she was wearing her mother things...



Yes, Veronica, That's the photo I was talking about. Thanks for posting. It was all over town when King Ferdinand's crush on Elise was made known. One thing we must credit Antonia's father for: once he assumed his love for Elise he was ready to defend it come what may. He quarrelled with his son King Luis to have her sit amongst royals at the banquets and never accepted to be invited without her.
Antonia told Luis: «If I had not accepted to have her here, Daddy would not had come!» (to Sigmaringen)


«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #187 on: April 25, 2009, 10:15:04 PM »


Yes, he was unfaithful once after long abstinence and begged for forgiveness and never did it again. You must place yourself in those days: no contraception and what could you do after being told by the doctor you could not risk to have babies?

And Antonia did write nice letters to Maria Pia. She was a lady. Those letters were robbed from the Royal archives sometime between 1928 and 2000. But I assume they were very friendly. Maria Pia was all that was left for Antonia from her old days. Antonia was lost after Luis died. She just slowly faded away.

I understand! I place myself easily in those days. It must have been very hard for both Leopold and Antonia. And I think I understand also the bond between Antonia and the widow of her beloved brother Luiz. I believe Antonia was almost dying from "saudade"...saudade about her country but also about the "old times", when her father and brothers were alive...
[/quote]

Hi Yseult!
Yes, it is all very sad about Antonia and her saudade for Portugal. Being married to Leopold meant having to leave, and staying would had meant having to part from him. So she chose to marry him but, being 16, never realized how bitter her exile would be. «I have suffer from a kind of ice some Germans have in their hearts» she once wrote. And gradually Antonia the teaser, the «funny sister», the joke-maker became Antonia the lonely isolated lady of later years.
We have a fado song here in Portugal that says «We all have 2 rivers that cross inside our chest». Some people's rivers run deeper and wilder and with no return...


«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #188 on: April 25, 2009, 10:19:46 PM »

larger version:



Great, Marie-of-Romania! I had never ever seen this portrait! Thanks so much for sharing.
A bit naive, but very interesting. It is not exactly Antonia, but we can figure out it is her, somehow. She does look like both Kings Fernandos (her father and her son). Is this picture in a Romanian palace?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 10:51:53 AM by Svetabel »


«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline Laura_

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #189 on: April 26, 2009, 06:55:31 AM »

Great, Marie-of-Romania! I had never ever seen this portrait! Thanks so much for sharing.
A bit naive, but very interesting. It is not exactly Antonia, but we can figure out it is her, somehow. She does look like both Kings Fernandos (her father and her son). Is this picture in a Romanian palace?

At Pelisor Castle, in Sinaia, Romania. It was King Ferdinand's favourite portrait of his mother,he kept it in his study his entire life next to a picture of his wife as a young bride.

Offline Yseult

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #190 on: April 26, 2009, 07:10:28 AM »

Great, Marie-of-Romania! I had never ever seen this portrait! Thanks so much for sharing.
A bit naive, but very interesting. It is not exactly Antonia, but we can figure out it is her, somehow. She does look like both Kings Fernandos (her father and her son). Is this picture in a Romanian palace?

At Pelisor Castle, in Sinaia, Romania. It was King Ferdinand's favourite portrait of his mother,he kept it in his study his entire life next to a picture of his wife as a young bride.

Ohhhh, my God...!! It´s an incredible portrait, Marie. And a portrait with a sweet story behind, since it was the favourite of king Ferdinand. I must to say I´m thrilled about the portrait. Thank you sooooooo much for sharing, Marie.

Offline Jose II

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #191 on: April 26, 2009, 10:15:58 AM »

Great, Marie-of-Romania! I had never ever seen this portrait! Thanks so much for sharing.
A bit naive, but very interesting. It is not exactly Antonia, but we can figure out it is her, somehow. She does look like both Kings Fernandos (her father and her son). Is this picture in a Romanian palace?

At Pelisor Castle, in Sinaia, Romania. It was King Ferdinand's favourite portrait of his mother,he kept it in his study his entire life next to a picture of his wife as a young bride.

Do you know who painted it ?

Offline Jose II

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #192 on: April 26, 2009, 10:17:00 AM »
To Yseult

The pictures you posted say they have been moved or deleted.
Can you post them again, please ?

Offline Yseult

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #193 on: April 26, 2009, 10:23:19 AM »
Of course, José





Hope this time it´s ok!

Offline Jose II

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Re: House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
« Reply #194 on: April 26, 2009, 10:26:17 AM »


Yes, Veronica, That's the photo I was talking about. Thanks for posting. It was all over town when King Ferdinand's crush on Elise was made known. One thing we must credit Antonia's father for: once he assumed his love for Elise he was ready to defend it come what may. He quarrelled with his son King Luis to have her sit amongst royals at the banquets and never accepted to be invited without her.
Antonia told Luis: «If I had not accepted to have her here, Daddy would not had come!» (to Sigmaringen)


D.Fernando did have a long struggle with D.Luis in order that he would accept Elisa.
Man of a very quiet nature, we could qualify him a man of "sopas e descanso" ;-) a man of soup and rest.
But he was married to the highly energetic and proud Maria Pia of Savoy who controlled him at her own pleasure.
At a banquet in Necessidades Palace when it was toast time, D.Maria Pia squeezed her glass so strongly it broke, so that she would not have to toast to the Countess.

A couple of years ago there was a thread on the Countess of Edla at the Iberian Families with lots of photos most by "Grand Duke" who does not participate in these forum's  for a long time.
Hope there is nothing wrong with him.