Author Topic: Like or Dislike?  (Read 157329 times)

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #195 on: October 24, 2006, 02:55:52 PM »
I'm sorry GDE - I didn't notice your post when I made mine.

Okay, let's all play nice.

Yes, David's tone can sometimes be rather brusque and/or sarcastic. He does have valid frustrations though--ones that are shared based on what turns up in private communications to moderators. We are trying to walk a line here. For those who don't like these kinds of threads, the best thing is to just avoid them. I would also ask that our posters be aware of the mounting frustrations on the part of their fellow Forum members--which is causing a number to leave or just lurk--and try to understand. For all, I would remind that a civil tone is requested and that individual concerns be confined to PMs.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Dandywell

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #196 on: October 24, 2006, 03:31:23 PM »
Okay, I'm continuing the game, if that's all right.. last one was St. Stephen's Day? Sounds like a fine concept, but here in the US I have never experieneced it...

David Pritchard?
lol, jk.
nicholas romanov?

Penny_Wilson

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #197 on: October 24, 2006, 04:05:29 PM »

David Pritchard?

As the saying goes, I've got nothing but love for David Pritchard.  And what's more, I understand his frustration.  The increasingly puerile "sand box" threads seem to be over-running this site -- and quite honestly, I find some of them more than a little creepy.  I know that it is the prevailing attitude on this site that the younger members be treated well, lest one or two of them one day become the next Bruce Lincoln or Greg King or Robert Massie -- but at some point, intellectual discipline must come in to play.  If it doesn't -- well -- no-one is ever going to evolve into Lincoln, King or Massie, are they?

~Penny

Edited to ask: Why is David now a "guest"?  Does this mean he has left the forum?  If so -- what an incredible freaking loss for you all.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2006, 04:08:57 PM by Penny_Wilson »

Ra-Ra-Rasputin

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #198 on: October 24, 2006, 04:44:20 PM »
No matter how intellectual someone is, if all they can find to contribute is, as has been the case lately, sarcasm and ill feeling towards others, I see no reason why they should be a member of this forum if they find it so distasteful to them.

This is a COMMUNITY.  A community is a place where people are supposed to help and support one another.  David's comments are indeed valid; this place is becoming nothing but a creepy love fest for some dead kids on certain boards, but the way he goes about expressing his opinions is neither helpful nor constructive, and has alienated him from a number of posters.

I think most of us adults would like this forum to be more about history than idol worshipping, but as long as it remains open to all ages, that's never really going to happen unless some big changes are made.

If this 'puerile' behaviour that so many people disagree with is SUCH a problem, then maybe we should start discussing constructive ways to change the forum for the better rather than going round and round in circles telling people to ignore what they don't like, etc, etc.

I think a good way to start would be getting rid of the separate Grand Duchesses and Alexei boards and just creating one board for all of them.  That would reduce the amount of redundant discussion and idol worshipping on those boards. 

Also, perhaps there should be a GUIDE to using this forum, containing advice on what sort of content posts might include, and what probably isn't suitable.  If we really want to make this forum about history, silly questions about who's the most handsome, etc, should not be allowed.  They could be deleted if they are created, and the poster who created the thread informed as to why that happened. 

Just some suggestions.

Rachel
xx

Penny_Wilson

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #199 on: October 24, 2006, 05:11:14 PM »

If this 'puerile' behaviour that so many people disagree with is SUCH a problem, then maybe we should start discussing constructive ways to change the forum for the better rather than going round and round in circles telling people to ignore what they don't like, etc, etc.

I absolutely agree with you, Rachel.  This problem is recurring with increased frequency -- and it always seems that the very defensive response from the sandbox is that the "intellectuals" suck it up and deal with it -- because one of the sandbox might one day be a great historian.  It's a nice thought -- but it's not going to happen if they can't get beyond gossiping about handsome dead men and which Grand Duchess was prettiest.  The time has come, I think, for the sandbox to give a little ground to more serious discussion.

Perhaps better use could be made of the "Having Fun" forum?

Also, perhaps there should be a GUIDE to using this forum, containing advice on what sort of content posts might include, and what probably isn't suitable.  If we really want to make this forum about history, silly questions about who's the most handsome, etc, should not be allowed.  They could be deleted if they are created, and the poster who created the thread informed as to why that happened. 

Just some suggestions.

Rachel
xx

Again, I agree with you.  My previous post came from a position of frustration -- because it is frustrating when an informative poster leaves this site because there is no longer a place for them here.  Soon, this place will be nothing but one huge sandbox -- and then what?

Yseult

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #200 on: October 24, 2006, 05:54:30 PM »
I don´t want to disturb anyone, but from my -humble- point of wiew, this forum can be a well-balanced place. I´m learning a lot about a great number of historical figures and historical events due to the fact there are a lot of people here with an impressive knowledge. I´m grateful to all of you that always share a very extended bibliography and the results of your own researchs about a great number of issues. I personally began to order books published only in english or french to improve my knowledge because one thread or one simple post made me feel touched. And this is noteworthy, I think...

Of course, there are a number of threads containing nothing but castles of sand about pretty princess and handsome men, but this is not a bad thing. I agree that if there are a great deal of "trivia threads", sometimes it´s more difficult to find the way to the threads were a deal of valuable info is waiting for us ;) But I really hope that the trivia threads could serve to very young people to became involved in the HISTORY. Not only if one or two wished to became historians...there are millions of people that never became historians, but feel history in their bones and flesh, mind and heart...and this means something too to mantain alive the history. Historians could not exist if the people who really like history and buy historical books disappears ;)

tatianolishka_1

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #201 on: October 24, 2006, 06:21:43 PM »
I'm just going to do the game again. Hope I don't annoy someone...

The Tsar Nicholas II? Like.

Dogs? ;D
« Last Edit: October 24, 2006, 06:29:21 PM by tatianolishka_1 »

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #202 on: October 24, 2006, 06:23:26 PM »
I absolutely agree with you, Rachel.  This problem is recurring with increased frequency -- and it always seems that the very defensive response from the sandbox is that the "intellectuals" suck it up and deal with it -- because one of the sandbox might one day be a great historian.  It's a nice thought -- but it's not going to happen if they can't get beyond gossiping about handsome dead men and which Grand Duchess was prettiest.  The time has come, I think, for the sandbox to give a little ground to more serious discussion.

Perhaps better use could be made of the "Having Fun" forum?
Indeed. My opinion on this matter has changed significantly over the last few months. I'd pretty much been on the side of the kiddos in the past, but now I think that some of this "sandbox" stuff really ought to be managed somehow. Time and again, the scholarly folks have been told to be respectful and tolerant. I think it's only fair to ask the "fun" crew to do the same, and adapt some of their behavoir to accomodate other users. We're coming dangerously close to the lowest common denominator here.

Simply put, there need to be rules for what's considered historical and what's not. All I'm asking for are some boundaries, not ultimatums. Giving the kids free reign is *not* going to help them learn anything, intellectually or socially. I do believe that if the younger folks are making an effort to learn and contribute, then they *should* be encouraged and treated respectfully, no matter how basic (and there IS a difference between "silly" and "basic") their questions seem to the veteran members -- that's how you cultivate the next great historian. The kids who are serious about history WILL rise to our expectations, if we're clear about what's expected. Those who aren't will dabble a while in photo-gazing and pretty-contests, and then go on their merry way. A place for them already exists, and I don't see why we can't be firm about expecting them to use it.



If we really want to make this forum about history, silly questions about who's the most handsome, etc, should not be allowed.  They could be deleted if they are created, and the poster who created the thread informed as to why that happened. 
Exactly. The prettiest/handsomest debates have nothing to do with history, and ought to be relegated to Having Fun, IMO. Same goes for the Happy Birthday/In Memory threads -- they're not exactly "fun" but they're not historical discussions, either.

Quote
I think a good way to start would be getting rid of the separate Grand Duchesses and Alexei boards and just creating one board for all of them.  That would reduce the amount of redundant discussion and idol worshipping on those boards. 
I DON'T however, agree with the proposal of combining all the OTMAA boards. There is some material of genuine biographical interest in there -- such as Olga's depression, Aleksei's wild & willful behavior, and Tatiana's relationship to her mother -- and combining all the boards would only create an organizational nightmare for those of us who want to refer back to those threads.



I don´t want to disturb anyone, but from my -humble- point of wiew, this forum can be a well-balanced place.
I agree. But the key is "balance" and I think the see-saw has tipped too much in favor of the younger folks lately.

Quote
Of course, there are a number of threads containing nothing but castles of sand about pretty princess and handsome men, but this is not a bad thing.
IMO, that *can* sometimes be a bad thing. If Bob's aim is to create a place where serious historical discussions take place, we need to promote an atmosphere conducive to that goal. A library and a playground simply can't coexist in the same space. I'm not saying we should obliterate the silly stuff -- just that it should be confined. We're not going to attract the knowledgeable, serious folks if the boards that purport to be about serious history are overrun with idol-worship and pretty princess chatter. IMO, it is ok to be silly now and then -- just do it in the appropriate place.




And for the record, I have no problem at all with the Discussion boards. They are what they are, and they're clearly labeled as off-topic. Lambasting people for hanging out in this virtual lounge, as it were, is just plain...silly.  ;)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2006, 06:29:50 PM by Sarushka »

Offline clockworkgirl21

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #203 on: October 25, 2006, 02:13:20 PM »
I think I have to be missing something here, because I don't see any silly posts outside of Having Fun, OTMAA's boards, and here. Having Fun is for silly posts, you can't really discuss Russian history on OTMAA's boards, and this one is used for off topic posts. Except for Most Handsome Man, which really does belong in Having Fun, can someone send me a silly post that isn't in one of those boards? I'm not trying to be snotty, I'm just not seeing it.  :-\

Offline lori_c

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #204 on: October 25, 2006, 02:29:31 PM »
I think I have to be missing something here, because I don't see any silly posts outside of Having Fun, OTMAA's boards, and here. Having Fun is for silly posts, you can't really discuss Russian history on OTMAA's boards, and this one is used for off topic posts. Except for Most Handsome Man, which really does belong in Having Fun, can someone send me a silly post that isn't in one of those boards? I'm not trying to be snotty, I'm just not seeing it.  :-\

With all due respect, I don't see it either.  I thought the place to post fun stuff  was the thread "Having Fun"
OTMAA's boards are much easier to follow whent they are broken out by each child individually.  And, as they were individuals, it would be an injustice to try to lump everything together on one board.

I like the Forum the way it is, that's why I joined in.  It's informative but every serious discussion needs a thread to let off some of the pressure and just have a good time with other people who enjoy this Forum just as much.

Ra-Ra-Rasputin

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #205 on: October 25, 2006, 02:39:27 PM »
I think I have to be missing something here, because I don't see any silly posts outside of Having Fun, OTMAA's boards, and here. Having Fun is for silly posts, you can't really discuss Russian history on OTMAA's boards, and this one is used for off topic posts. Except for Most Handsome Man, which really does belong in Having Fun, can someone send me a silly post that isn't in one of those boards? I'm not trying to be snotty, I'm just not seeing it.  :-\

With all due respect, I don't see it either.  I thought the place to post fun stuff  was the thread "Having Fun"
OTMAA's boards are much easier to follow whent they are broken out by each child individually.  And, as they were individuals, it would be an injustice to try to lump everything together on one board.

I like the Forum the way it is, that's why I joined in.  It's informative but every serious discussion needs a thread to let off some of the pressure and just have a good time with other people who enjoy this Forum just as much.

Perhaps you two girls should get some glasses.

I've just looked at the first page of the GD Maria thread.

Here's a quick sample of what's on offer:

Sunburned?
Guess who I think looks like Maria?
Who is your favourite/least favourite GD?
Who would Maria have married?
About 10 Maria photo threads

And that's just Maria.

If it would be an 'injustice' to lump together all of the GDs and Alexei into one board, don't you think it's also an injustice that all people can find to discuss about them is whether they would have married so and so or who was the prettiest? Or, even better, whose friend looks the most like Maria?

Most of the GD and Alexei threads belong in Having Fun.  Some of them are genuine historical discussion, but most of the time no one with an actual interest in history even bothers going into them.  They're full of pointless posts and how you can't see that, I don't know.

Rachel
xx

Offline lori_c

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #206 on: October 25, 2006, 02:47:14 PM »
I agree with you that in some of the GD boards there are frivolous threads. But I did find a lot more educational things and photos that I had never seen before in other more educational threads.  I just choose not to go into the threads that have those sort of titles.

by the way, I don't need glasses.

Dandywell

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #207 on: October 25, 2006, 03:01:16 PM »
Dogs. I really truly dislike dogs.
grownups?

Dandywell

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #208 on: October 25, 2006, 03:07:11 PM »
oh, and to put my opinion, as long as these kind of threads are limited to this forum and the "having fun" forum, I don't see a real problem. In fact, it's nice to be able to get to know the people you're talking to a little bit better. This IS a community, as someone said somewhere up there^. Don't get your panties in a knot over nothing

and a side note, some people would probably think these boards are, in general, silly, since it's basically the discussion of past times and dead people, the two of which we can do nothing about, and really get nothing done talking about them

Offline clockworkgirl21

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Re: Like or Dislike?
« Reply #209 on: October 25, 2006, 04:52:44 PM »
Quote
Perhaps you two girls should get some glasses.

I've just looked at the first page of the GD Maria thread.

Here's a quick sample of what's on offer:

Sunburned?
Guess who I think looks like Maria?
Who is your favourite/least favourite GD?
Who would Maria have married?
About 10 Maria photo threads

And that's just Maria.

If it would be an 'injustice' to lump together all of the GDs and Alexei into one board, don't you think it's also an injustice that all people can find to discuss about them is whether they would have married so and so or who was the prettiest? Or, even better, whose friend looks the most like Maria?

Most of the GD and Alexei threads belong in Having Fun.  Some of them are genuine historical discussion, but most of the time no one with an actual interest in history even bothers going into them.  They're full of pointless posts and how you can't see that, I don't know.

I said silly posts in other boards than Having Fun, OTMAA, and this board. As others have said, if we moved all the silly threads from the children's boards, we would be left with probably three threads. It's sort of hard to have all serious threads about people who died so young. Historically, they really aren't that important. How many discussions could you have about Anastasia that is linked with Russian history?