Katherine Swynford

[Kimberly]

And the gossips of the day claimed that John of Gaunt was the father of Philippa's child

[Kimberly]

Katherine and her daughter Joan

[Kimberly]

Sorry its a bit big but it is christmas

[ilyala]

was that joan the queen of scotland?

[Kimberly]

No, that Joan was her grand daughter. This Joan was her daughter...who was the mother of, among others, Cecily, The rose of Raby, who in turn was the mother of Edward IV and Richard III

[ilyala]

aah yes, that whole marriage scene of the fifteenth century england... i got lost in it when i built the genealogical charts...  :-/

[Kimberly]

As Liam and I have said before...its because they use the same names. It gets so confusing.... throw in a few Kylies' and Britneys' and life would be so much easier

[Prince_Lieven]

Yes, that Joan, Katherine's daughter, married firstly Robert Ferrers, and had two daughters with him, and secondly Ralph Neville.

In fact, as a matter of interest, here's Katherine's children by John:
1. John Beaufort, 1371-1410. He married Margaret Holland, granddaughter of Joan, Princess of Wales. It was their daughter, another Joan, who was Queen of Scots.

2. Henry Beaufort, 1375-1447. Cardinal, I think.

3. Thomas Beaufort, 1377-1426.

4. Joan Beaufort 1379-1440.

[Kimberly]

Yes, and one of her grandsons' was Warwick the Kingmaker, father of Anne Neville, Richard III's Queen

[ilyala]

what became of thomas?

[Prince_Lieven]

He married Margaret Neville and was Duke of Exeter. He died childless.

[Helen_Azar]

Thanks guys! Now, this may be really obvious and it may have been in the book and I missed it, but how did they come up with the name Beaufort for Katherine's and J og G's children?

[Prince_Lieven]

It was a French title of John's - Lord of Beaufort.  

[Helen_Azar]

It was a French title of John's - Lord of Beaufort.  

Thanks. I kind of figured it was something like that, but I couldn't figure it out...

[Prince_Lieven]

One minor irritant of mine with the book - the only irritant!   Does anyone else think that the other royal ladies in the book are shown in a bad light to Katherine's advantage? All except Blanche of Lancaster - Katherine's idol - the other women are shown to be either malicious (Constanza), stupid (the Duchess of York), spiteful (the Countess of Buckingham) or slightly gone to seed (the Princess of Wales). That last one particularly irked me - Joan was the Fair Maid of Kent! But she's shown to be apparently not tat beautiful, so that no one outshines Katherine.   I'm probably making a mountain out of a molehill here, but . . .