Author Topic: Queen Victoria's Family  (Read 156785 times)

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Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Queen Victoria's Family
« Reply #165 on: February 26, 2007, 06:08:48 AM »
On another thread their was a lovely group photo of Charlotte, Thora, Marie Louise and I think Ducky and Missy? I can't remember the thread though :(
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Offline Angie_H

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Re: Queen Victoria's Family
« Reply #166 on: February 26, 2007, 02:55:42 PM »
Does anyone know of any other sites that are like the Royal Collection website?

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Queen Victoria's Family
« Reply #167 on: February 26, 2007, 06:58:53 PM »
Not a lot of them around. But I think there are some in German of German princely houses.... ???

Offline RichC

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Re: favourite grand child of Queen Victoria?
« Reply #168 on: April 09, 2007, 12:10:58 AM »
I think it's pretty clear that Alix was certainly one of Queen Victoria's favorite grandchildren, if not the favorite.  The Queen lavished an unusual amount of praise on Alix when she wrote the following in 1889:

I fear all hope of Alicky's marrying Eddy is at an end.  She has written to tell him how it pains her to pain him, but that she cannot marry him, much as she likes him as a Cousin, that she knows she would not be happy with him and that he would not be happy with her and that he much not think of her....It is a real sorrow to us ...but...she says -- that if she is forced she will do it -- but that she would be unhappy and he too.  This shows great strength of character as all her family and all of us wish it, and she refuses the greatest position there is.

How many of her grandchildren were complimented for their "great strength of character"?

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: favourite grand child of Queen Victoria?
« Reply #169 on: April 09, 2007, 11:48:31 AM »
It could be hard to tell since most of the evidence (letters,etc) that's been published has been focused on the more well-known ones. It's hard to say what she might have written of Thora Holstein (one of her constant companions in her later years), for instance, because no one has really published anything on her.
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Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: favourite grand child of Queen Victoria?
« Reply #170 on: April 09, 2007, 02:14:17 PM »
The first grandchild is often a special favourite - often against the better judgement of the grandparent, so my bet is that the Kaiser always had first place in Victoria's heart. Wilhelm and Charlotte were the only grandchildren who met the Prince Consort. Surely this would have made a difference (I'm a first grandchild myself, so I know this!). So I agree with Guinastasia.

I think there is a difference between the "favourite" grandchild and the ones that she got on with on a personal level like Victoria of Battenberg and "Thora". She was fond of them but they were not the favourite. I also have the feeling that the queen was not quite as keen on Alix after her marriage to the Russian Tsar as she had been before. As Alix burnt their correspondence we can't really be sure of this, however.
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Offline Janet_W.

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Re: favourite grand child of Queen Victoria?
« Reply #171 on: April 09, 2007, 02:35:00 PM »
"Favorite"--especially when applied to people--is, I think, problematic. And in the case of Queen Victoria . . . well, she had a number of grandchildren, and during a period that spanned decades was closer to this one or that one for various reasons, including birth order, parentage, proximity, personality, physcial attractiveness, and neediness. So perhaps "favored" would be the better term? In that case, I would certainly agree that firstboarn grandson Wilhelm was a favorite, as would be the children of Beatrice and those of Alice.

Offline RichC

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Re: favourite grand child of Queen Victoria?
« Reply #172 on: April 09, 2007, 05:02:11 PM »
The first grandchild is often a special favourite - often against the better judgement of the grandparent, so my bet is that the Kaiser always had first place in Victoria's heart. Wilhelm and Charlotte were the only grandchildren who met the Prince Consort. Surely this would have made a difference (I'm a first grandchild myself, so I know this!). So I agree with Guinastasia.


I agree that the first grandchild is often the favorite -- that's how it was in my family and I'm the youngest.  But it's hard for me to see how Wilhelm comes off as a favorite, based on the correspondence I've read between Vicky and her mother.  The Queen was not even too keen on Wilhelm coming to her Jubilee in 1887.  This is the occasion when she snubbed him and he retorted that it was "high time the old lady died".

He was indeed one of the grandchildren who met the Prince Consort, but didn't he also injure Prince Leopold, after being told to be careful with his young uncle? 

I think that as she got older, Queen Victoria became kind of afraid of Wilhelm.  Not personally afraid, but afraid of what he might do with all the power he possessed.  She modified her behavior toward him and showered him with lots of attention, if not affection.  When he visited England, they literally rolled out the red carpet.  I believe her government advised her to take this tack as well.


Offline imperial angel

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Re: favourite grand child of Queen Victoria?
« Reply #173 on: April 10, 2007, 11:10:38 AM »
I think Wilhelm might have been her favorite grandchild at first when he was young before it became clear what he would become. I think it would be surprising if he wasn't her favorite at first, but very surprising if that continued. Before her other grand children really begun to grow up, he most likely was her favorite, when he was very very young. He did act when she died like he thought he was her favorite grand child, in my interpretation of his actions. But, he most likely knew he wasn't. ;)

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: favourite grand child of Queen Victoria?
« Reply #174 on: April 10, 2007, 05:53:44 PM »
Yes, I agree that she may have become disenchanted with his traits of character - she was all too well aware of the Crown Princess's early inexperience as a mother , which soured her relationship with her elder children. I think that the early favourite never quite loses that palce in his grandmother's heart. The deathbed scene confirms this in my opinion.

Victoria was very fond of her younger grandchildren, the sons of Princess Beatrice. I was at Balmoral (a tourist!) a couple of years ago. Ther is a small bungalow in the grounds which was used by Alexander (Drino) of Battenburg when he was on holiday from school. I had the idea that this boy was a particular pet of the old queen.  :)
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Offline basilforever

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Re: favourite grand child of Queen Victoria?
« Reply #175 on: April 11, 2007, 07:50:24 AM »
I think it's pretty clear that Alix was certainly one of Queen Victoria's favorite grandchildren, if not the favorite.  The Queen lavished an unusual amount of praise on Alix when she wrote the following in 1889:

I fear all hope of Alicky's marrying Eddy is at an end.  She has written to tell him how it pains her to pain him, but that she cannot marry him, much as she likes him as a Cousin, that she knows she would not be happy with him and that he would not be happy with her and that he much not think of her....It is a real sorrow to us ...but...she says -- that if she is forced she will do it -- but that she would be unhappy and he too.  This shows great strength of character as all her family and all of us wish it, and she refuses the greatest position there is.

How many of her grandchildren were complimented for their "great strength of character"?

I think that QV would have at times admired the strength of character of some of her other grandchildren, but Alix turning down being the future Queen of Britain was such a big thing - it was very remarkable. I think QV was shocked that she did that. And Alix I think was the only Princess officially pushed by others to marry Eddy, along with May.
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Re: favourite grand child of Queen Victoria?
« Reply #176 on: April 11, 2007, 04:39:24 PM »
She was quite close to Victoria Battenberg.

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: favourite grand child of Queen Victoria?
« Reply #177 on: April 11, 2007, 05:27:22 PM »
The first grandchild is often a special favourite - often against the better judgement of the grandparent, so my bet is that the Kaiser always had first place in Victoria's heart. Wilhelm and Charlotte were the only grandchildren who met the Prince Consort. Surely this would have made a difference (I'm a first grandchild myself, so I know this!). So I agree with Guinastasia.


 

I think that as she got older, Queen Victoria became kind of afraid of Wilhelm.  Not personally afraid, but afraid of what he might do with all the power he possessed.  She modified her behavior toward him and showered him with lots of attention, if not affection.  When he visited England, they literally rolled out the red carpet.  I believe her government advised her to take this tack as well.




QV, from what I have read about Willy's visits, knew he totally enjoyed the grand state dinners and pomp and circumstance of such visits. I think QV, like Vicky, tried to accomodate Willy's likes. Willy for sure was held to a much higher standard than the other grand children, but I think QV had him at the top or near to top her list to the end. Surely Willy would have thought so especially with his intimate attending to her as she passed.
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Offline RichC

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Re: favourite grand child of Queen Victoria?
« Reply #178 on: April 11, 2007, 10:19:15 PM »

QV, from what I have read about Willy's visits, knew he totally enjoyed the grand state dinners and pomp and circumstance of such visits. I think QV, like Vicky, tried to accomodate Willy's likes. Willy for sure was held to a much higher standard than the other grand children, but I think QV had him at the top or near to top her list to the end. Surely Willy would have thought so especially with his intimate attending to her as she passed.

I'm afraid I have to disagree here Herr Kaiser.  I always thought that Willy was held to a lower standard than the other grandchildren because he was so unstable -- in other words, he was allowed to get away with more. 

Willy may have been at or near the top of the Queen's list -- the list of her least favorite grandchildren.  Here's another example of the Queen's attitude toward her firstborn grandchild -- a letter written to Nicholas II in 1899:

I feel I must...tell you something which you ought to know and perhaps do not.  It is, I am sorry to say, that William takes every opportunity of impressing upon Sir F. Lascelles (British Ambassador in Berlin) that Russia is doing all in her power to work against us....I need not say that I do not believe a word of this....But I am afraid William may go and tell things against us to you, just as he does about you to us.  If so, pray tell me openly and confidentially.  It is so important that we should understand each other, and that such mischievous and unstraightforward proceedings should be put a stop to.

Two months after this letter to Nicholas, the Queen pointedly refused to invite the Kaiser to England for her 80th birthday celebrations; she specifically excluded him from the festivities.

It is interesting to note, also, that the last official act by Queen Victoria (Jan 16, 1901) was to decline one of the Kaiser's "many proffered decorations."

Here's a few lines QV wrote to her daughter in 1887 as to why she did not want her oldest grandchild to to come to England for her Golden Jubilee:

...first because Fritz & you come, & second because I must lodge them & thirdly because you know how ill he behaved, how rude, to me, to Liko... & how shamefully he calumniated dear, excellent, noble Sandro & how shamefully he behaves to you both...Bertie wants me to invite William & Dona, but ...I fear he may show his dislikes and be disagreeable.



 

« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 10:43:58 PM by RichC »

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: favourite grand child of Queen Victoria?
« Reply #179 on: April 11, 2007, 10:34:58 PM »
Her relationship with Wilhelm blew hot & cold, most definitely. 1899 was a particular low point as the British and Germans were at loggerheads over various issues, including the deteriorating situation (and eventual war) with the Boers. As Wilhelm's cousin (and Dona's for that matter) Prince Christian Victor of Schleswig-Holstein was engaged in battle--and would die shortly before returning home the following year--his actions were particularly painful to the Queen. In 1899 there was also a good deal of strife over the Coburg succession--where QV felt Wilhelm was meddling unduly--after the death of Alfred Jr. Nonetheless, Wilhelm and his family visited the Queen in November 1899 and the Queen wrote very affectionately of him to his mother.

I think it's important to distinguish QV's feelings towards Wilhelm as a monarch (and most public face of his government and their policies) and her feelings towards him as a grandmother. They occasionally overlapped but much of her scolding and anger had to do with his performance and opinions as Kaiser.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 10:37:33 PM by grandduchessella »
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