Author Topic: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne  (Read 26199 times)

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Did Anne have a choice?
« Reply #75 on: December 05, 2005, 02:04:33 PM »
Thanks for your contributions guys. Bell, you make some wonderful points - especially the one about any issue of William by another marriage. I think it's likely, as you say, that pressure would have been put on Anne to surrender her succession place in their favour. And imagine what she would have thought of that!
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ilyala

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Re: Did Anne have a choice?
« Reply #76 on: December 05, 2005, 03:37:56 PM »
i don't think she was exactly pressured. but i do believe that she realized that she didn't stand much chance for anything else...

palatine

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Re: Did Anne have a choice?
« Reply #77 on: December 05, 2005, 05:49:14 PM »
Many in Parliament wanted to give the throne to Mary alone, which would have guaranteed that Anne would succeed her on her death.  Neither William nor Mary would consider such a settlement, and demanded to be made joint monarchs.  Parliament did not dare to go against their wishes, what with William's troops loitering around London.  

Anne made no protest over the settlement because she probably believed that there was no way that William would outlive Mary.  Mary was very healthy, albeit overweight.  She was also twelve years younger than William.  

After Mary's death, Anne was very unhappy about being passed over in the succession, but it was too late by then to protest Parliament's decision.

bell_the_cat

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Re: Did Anne have a choice?
« Reply #78 on: December 06, 2005, 02:27:17 AM »
Quote
After Mary's death, Anne was very unhappy about being passed over in the succession, but it was too late by then to protest Parliament's decision.


Also, without the Glorious Revolution she would never have been Queen, so it would have been like looking a gift-horse in the mouth.

RussMan

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Re: Did Anne have a choice?
« Reply #79 on: December 12, 2005, 03:35:47 PM »
I wasn't aware that Anne had such pressure on herself like that. Interesting. ;)

It seems to me that in that era Parliament was becomeing ever stronger, with the monarch having less and less authority. I'm not sure why she should been seen as a threat to William III. :-/

ilyala

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Re: Did Anne have a choice?
« Reply #80 on: December 13, 2005, 08:01:02 AM »
when she came to the throne some things changed. the way she favoured some people and so on. no matter how little influence the monarch has, there is some. and especially at that time, the monarch was not yet completely removed from ruling... i'm sure many people in the parliament didn't want anything to change

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Did Anne have a choice?
« Reply #81 on: December 13, 2005, 10:56:51 AM »
Anne wasn't totally without influence. She vetoed a Scottish milita bill - she was the last monarch to use the royal veto.
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bell_the_cat

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Re: Did Anne have a choice?
« Reply #82 on: December 15, 2005, 10:29:06 AM »
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Anne wasn't totally without influence. She vetoed a Scottish milita bill - she was the last monarch to use the royal veto.


It was also she who appointed ministers and decided on policy. Even at this stage the powers of parliament were only a limit to royal power (they had control of the purse strings, crucially).

It was under the first two Georges that the idea of a Prime Minister who governed from parliament took over.
The first one was Robert Walpole.

George III tried to reverse this situation in his early years as king (he was unsuccessful).

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Did Anne have a choice?
« Reply #83 on: December 15, 2005, 10:31:37 AM »
Yep, and Walpole was unoffical PM for 21 years . . . ::)Wow. I think his official title was 'First Lord of the Treasury'. The man with this title held the most power in Anne's reign. I think she appointed the Earl of Shrewsbury just before she died, saying as she gave him the staff of office, 'use it to help my people' or something of the kind.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Did Anne have a choice?
« Reply #84 on: December 15, 2005, 10:42:20 AM »
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Yep, and Walpole was unoffical PM for 21 years . . . ::)Wow. I think his official title was 'First Lord of the Treasury'. The man with this title held the most power in Anne's reign. I think she appointed the Earl of Shrewsbury just before she died, saying as she gave him the staff of office, 'use it to help my people' or something of the kind.


Yes, she didn't have much choice though, she had had a stroke. The appointment of Shrewsbury was on 30th July and she died on 1st August 1714.

palatine

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #85 on: December 27, 2005, 01:59:22 PM »
Perhaps because of their upbringing, both Mary and Anne seem to have valued material prosperity over anything else.  Sarah Churchill, of all people, condemned Mary's conduct after the Glorious Revolution:

"Queen Mary wanted bowels.  Of this she gave unquestionable proof the first day she came to Whitehall.  She ran about it looking into every closet and conveniency, and turning up the quilts of the beds just as people do at an inn, with no sort of concern in her appearance.  Although at the time I was extremely caressed by her, I thought it very strange and unbecoming conduct.  For whatever necessity there was of deposing King James, he was still her father, who had been lately driven from that very chamber, and from that bed; and if she felt no tenderness, I thought, at least, she might have looked grave, or even pensively sad, at so melancholy a reverse of fortune."

John Evelyn concurred with Sarah's evaluation of Mary's behavior in his Diary:

"Queen Mary came to Whitehall laughing and jolly as to a wedding, so as to seem quite transported.  She rose early the next morning, and in her undress, as it is reported, before her women were up, went about the palace from room to room to see the convenience of it; lay in the same bed and apartment her unfortunate step-mother had always used, and within a night or two sat down to play at basset, as that princess had been accustomed to do.  She smiled upon and talked to everybody, which carriage was censured by many."

Mary later confided to Bishop Burnet that she behaved this way because William had ordered her to behave cheerfully when she came to London.  

elena_maria_vidal

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Re: Stuart Sisters: Mary II & Anne
« Reply #86 on: December 27, 2005, 08:44:35 PM »
I agree, Palatine. A very good point, and very common even today with people who are deprived of affection as children; they make up for it with possessions.