Author Topic: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich  (Read 102349 times)

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Annie

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2007, 01:36:58 PM »
No. No one ever claimed to be Michael. He had a living wife and relatives that could identify him easily.

This must be the reason he had no claimants. You'd think with the story of there being no body, and the fact that he was technically the heir to the (though non existent) throne, and possible royal fortune, guys would be lining up to be him! I was always surprised he had no claimants (well except for that one guy who used to post here) Because he was older there was no doubt about his face changing like some could say about a teenager (though from  17 to allegedly 18 and a half AN wouldn't have changed enough to look like FS/AA) and because he had a living wife, child and sisters and mother who could ID him well, no one bothered. The reason AN was a good prospect for frauds is because her immediate family was dead, and the family was so reclusive not many left alive knew her well enough to give positive ID. Those who did were either branded as liars (Olga, Gilliard) or not asked (Dmitri, Anna Vyrobova) Also, someone was clearly in on the AA fraud who had known the family, a Michael claimant didn't have that (which is likely why all of the other claimants of AN and the other children were not as successful as AA)

You know, I'm sorry there wasn't a Michael claimant back then. His birthright and inheritance would have overridden any claim by a possible AN claimant, and maybe AA would have just shut up and we wouldn't have to deal with her and hear about the shoes and the ears to this day!

That being said, it is good to talk about ANY other claimant besides her, even a wild tale like this!
« Last Edit: June 08, 2007, 01:41:04 PM by Annie »

FaithWhiteRose

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2007, 08:23:41 PM »
No. No one ever claimed to be Michael. He had a living wife and relatives that could identify him easily.

This must be the reason he had no claimants. You'd think with the story of there being no body, and the fact that he was technically the heir to the (though non existent) throne, and possible royal fortune, guys would be lining up to be him! I was always surprised he had no claimants (well except for that one guy who used to post here) Because he was older there was no doubt about his face changing like some could say about a teenager (though from  17 to allegedly 18 and a half AN wouldn't have changed enough to look like FS/AA) and because he had a living wife, child and sisters and mother who could ID him well, no one bothered. The reason AN was a good prospect for frauds is because her immediate family was dead, and the family was so reclusive not many left alive knew her well enough to give positive ID. Those who did were either branded as liars (Olga, Gilliard) or not asked (Dmitri, Anna Vyrobova) Also, someone was clearly in on the AA fraud who had known the family, a Michael claimant didn't have that (which is likely why all of the other claimants of AN and the other children were not as successful as AA)

You know, I'm sorry there wasn't a Michael claimant back then. His birthright and inheritance would have overridden any claim by a possible AN claimant, and maybe AA would have just shut up and we wouldn't have to deal with her and hear about the shoes and the ears to this day!

That being said, it is good to talk about ANY other claimant besides her, even a wild tale like this!

Good point Robert  :)
and Annie, I have to agree with you . . . it would have been sort of funny if all the movies and books were on Michael, rather than Anastasia or AA  ;)
And about Michael and his wife, Natalya Sheremetevskaia, they were quite a couple, weren't they? Their story was very romantic . . .

helenazar

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2007, 08:17:11 AM »
No. No one ever claimed to be Michael. He had a living wife and relatives that could identify him easily.

That would have made an interesting book (or even movie!), sort of The Return of Martin Guirre-ish...  ::)

Amanda_Misha

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2007, 09:07:41 PM »
Please can someone put a photo of the man that I demand to be Michael? ???
Thank you  :)

Robert_Hall

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2007, 01:44:38 AM »
I am not sure of your request, Amanda, but it has been pointed out that no one claimed to be Michael, so there obviously is no photo.

Alixz

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2007, 01:12:09 PM »
The Return of Martin Guirre was made into a move called Somersby and it has a very moving story.

Helen_A -   Mistaken for Alexander I, indeed   ::)  lol

Can you imagine Natasha taking in a man claiming to be Michael Alexandrovich and then finding out that his shoe size was wrong??

I am sorry, but I agree with Robert.  The Bolsheviks were sloppy but thorough.

No one has come forward to claim to be Paul Alexandrovich or any of the other who were shot in the Fortress of Sts Peter and Paul.  Why did no one think to say that a "double" had taken the place of one of the men and one of those men was not "at large"?




Annie

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2007, 03:24:08 PM »
The Return of Martin Guirre was made into a move called Somersby and it has a very moving story.

Way back when, I posted a thread on Sommersby and AA. I tried to search, but alas the search feature once again gave me no matches, even though I entered Sommersby, match any word, and my username. Sigh.

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=db274d60eb9ca301a9804e9d5feabb60&topic=1162.0



While I was searching manually through all the old threads, I also found this! Michael allegedly alive in England:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=db274d60eb9ca301a9804e9d5feabb60&topic=5679.0


There are a lot of very interesting topics here for those who are new or haven't looked in awhile, check them out!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 03:27:06 PM by Annie »

helenazar

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2007, 03:26:38 PM »
The Return of Martin Guirre was made into a move called Somersby and it has a very moving story.

Actually, The Return of Martin Guerre was made into a movie called The Return of Martin Guerre way before it was made into a movie called Somersby... It's in French  ;)

http://www.amazon.com/Return-Martin-Guerre-G%C3%A9rard-Depardieu/dp/B0001MIQWQ/ref=sr_1_3/002-3467939-3834418?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1181766243&sr=1-3

Offline Tsarfan

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2007, 06:10:02 PM »
He had a living wife and relatives that could identify him easily.

True . . . but when it comes to finding a precedent for something preposterous, Russian history is almost always willing to oblige.

During the Time of Troubles, the first false Dmitry to emerge was married to a woman named Marina Mniszech.  This claimant -- who actually occupied the throne for a while -- was killed in early 1606, whereupon a second false Dmitry emerged in 1607, claiming to be the first false Dmitry (although reportedly looking nothing like hiim).  Dmitry No. 2  was promptly "recognized" by Marina, who went on to marry him in secret.  (She apparently had no moral compunction about lying to regain the sacred throne she shared briefly with the first false Dmitry, but was rather disturbed at the prospect of living with a man to whom she was not married.  Go figure.)

In fact, the saga of the three false Dmitry's during the 17th century is a striking parallel to all the 20th-century nonsense about Anna Anderson's being "recognized" by people who knew the original and to the claims that Anna Anderson knew things that only the real Anastasia could have known.

When the first False Dmitry emerged, he was recognized by the Patriarch of Moscow, who found his knowledge of court life and his "royal demeanor" to be convincing -- something that only the "real" Dmitry could have pulled off.  And some members of the Russian nobility as well as foreign princes acknowledged him as the missing tsesarevitch Dmitry Ivanovich.  Much as Anna Anderson, this false Dmitry was "discovered" in adverse circumstances.  She was supposedly identified while in an insane asylum, and Dmitry's identity supposedly emerged when he erupted in anger after being slapped by a master into whose service he had arrived by the circuitous route of being passed from mother to doctor to monastery to temporal servitude.  (Ringing any bells about dog cart rides across the steppes, anyone?)

I think the real reason there was no serious attempt to raise up a Michael pretender was that having a Michael appear on the scene would have triggered real and prickly political and dynastic issues that no one had the will or the means to confront.  Raising up an Anastasia pretender would have been of no real political consequence (as almost all Russians had had quite enough of the Nicholas crowd), but it would have spawned a veritable industry for the romantic dreamers of pretty little princesses in pretty big palaces, not to mention the fortune hunters looking to capitalize in various far-fetched ways.

Unless one buys the notion that people were a whole lot more stupid in 1607 than in 1925, there is really nothing remarkable or unique about the partial success of Anna Anderson's scam.  All it needed was guillible daydreamers or cynical opportunists to work . . . things which are never  in short supply.

Alixz

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2007, 06:11:12 PM »
Actually, I knew that the movie had been made in French first, but for those who haven't read the book or don't speak or understand French, Somersby would be the way to go if they wanted to know what the story is all about.

I loved the ending twist about truth vs. loyalty and love. I love it and hated it, too.

Somewhere in the back of my mind, I remembered hearing about this story in school.  I can't remember if it was in high school or college, but I remember that someone mentioned it as good literature.  When Somersby came out it gave that story more public appeal.

Amanda_Misha

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2007, 07:51:27 PM »
I remember that in "Imperial Claimants Post Here"  law the history of a man that it looked for to obtain a visa under the identity of Michael and that the photos of this man were even shown a Natasha  and friends but were a fraud,  the book "Michael y Natasha"the information of this man and the photos are in a file Russian MS 1363/101  ???

helenazar

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2007, 08:08:25 AM »
Raising up an Anastasia pretender would have been of no real political consequence (as almost all Russians had had quite enough of the Nicholas crowd), but it would have spawned a veritable industry for the romantic dreamers of pretty little princesses in pretty big palaces, not to mention the fortune hunters looking to capitalize in various far-fetched ways.

Precisely...


Unless one buys the notion that people were a whole lot more stupid in 1607 than in 1925, there is really nothing remarkable or unique about the partial success of Anna Anderson's scam.  All it needed was guillible daydreamers or cynical opportunists to work . . . things which are never  in short supply.

Bingo  ;)

Nevey

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2009, 12:27:00 PM »
 I just was surfing around the Romanov Wiki entries and from what I have read there Nicholas II's younger brother (Grand Duke Michael ) was supposedly executed by the Bolsheviks along with his assistant Brian Johnson.  Their remains were never found they are supposed to be buried somewhere on the outskirts of Perm.  I was just wondering if this is true (I know how Wiki entries are) and if they still haven't been found (like I said Wiki entries can be tricky and I try not to rely on them ~ ;) ~ ) ?


« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 05:43:06 PM by Alixz »

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2009, 01:08:26 PM »
I just was surfing around the Romanov Wiki entries and from what I have read there Nicholas II's younger brother (Grand Duke Michael ) was supposedly executed by the Bolsheviks along with his assistant Brian Johnson.  Their remains were never found they are supposed to be buried somewhere on the outskirts of Perm.  I was just wondering if this is true (I know how Wiki entries are) and if they still haven't been found (like I said Wiki entries can be tricky and I try not to rely on them ~ ;) ~ ) ?




This is true. For more information on Michael, read the Crawford's book, "Michael and Natasha".

Welcome.

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2009, 11:39:34 PM »
Wow, Thank you, LisaDavidson!

Amazing colored fotos  by the most wonderful Yelena Aleksandrovna. Endless thank you very much!