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Author Topic: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal  (Read 38371 times)

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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2006, 12:03:03 PM »
Hmmm...interesting thought.  ;)
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bell_the_cat

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2006, 02:14:58 AM »
Maybe the reason is that the Duchess of Lancaster was not overexerting herself on behalf of her step-daughters. Elizabeth ended up with an English nobleman. Maybe Philippa was holding out for a crowned head.

John of Gaunt in fact offered the King of Portugal the choice between Philippa and Catherine, the daughter of his second marriage, but Joao chose Philippa as she was nearer his own age (he was 26).
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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2006, 05:45:04 AM »
interesting fact.  ;D
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2006, 05:58:19 AM »
Quote
Maybe the reason is that the Duchess of Lancaster was not overexerting herself on behalf of her step-daughters. Elizabeth ended up with an English nobleman. Maybe Philippa was holding out for a crowned head.

John of Gaunt in fact offered the King of Portugal the choice between Philippa and Catherine, the daughter of his second marriage, but Joao chose Philippa as she was nearer his own age (he was 26).


Yes, Elizabeth had to settle for an Englishman, albeit one of good stock - the son of the Princess of Wales!

Catherine - or Catalina - was 12 or 13 years Philippa's junior, I think, so the King's choice was understandable.
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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2006, 06:02:27 AM »
Yes...the age gap would have been too great.  :-/
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2006, 06:05:04 AM »
Catalina ended up Queen of Castile. I wonder if Philippa ever contacted her. It's doubtful though, as we discussed on the Tudor board, that the two enjoyed a close relationship.
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2006, 06:09:58 AM »
I am sure that as sisters and Queens, they might have written to one another. However I agree that they might not been close. The age gap and different mothers might be a problem.  :-/
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2006, 06:22:33 AM »
Yes indeed, especially as Catalina was brought up completely separate from the others and probably spoke Spanish as her first language.
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2006, 09:48:03 AM »
Possiblily....Remember she was the grandmother of Isabel the Catholic of Castile, thus great grandmother of Catherine of Aragon.  ::)
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2006, 09:54:20 AM »
Catherine of Aragon was a descendant of Philippa as well.
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2006, 10:44:27 AM »
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Yes indeed, especially as Catalina was brought up completely separate from the others and probably spoke Spanish as her first language.


Is this so? She didn't go to Spain before she was thirteen or fourteen - so I can't believe that her first language would be Castilian.  :-/

I've always imagined that they all spoke French to each other (English was just coming in at that time). I'm pretty certain that the children of Edward III were French speaking ("honi soit qui mal y pense" and all that).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
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umigon

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2006, 10:48:46 AM »
True, but maybe John and Constanza, as Catalina was their only surviving child, and they claimed the Crown of Castile, decided to educate their daughter in a Castilian manner just in case she could seize the throne to her illegitimate relatives who had usurped the Crown of Pedro I, her maternal grandfather. Surely a princess educated as a Castilian princess, rather than an English one, would be more popular.
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bell_the_cat

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2006, 10:50:39 AM »
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True, but maybe John and Constanza, as Catalina was their only surviving child, and they claimed the Crown of Castile, decided to educate their daughter in a Castilian manner just in case she could seize the throne to her illegitimate relatives who had usurped the Crown of Pedro I, her maternal grandfather. Surely a princess educated as a Castilian princess, rather than an English one, would be more popular.


I think they all spoke French to each other! I'm sure  Catalina had Castilian lessons though, as you say just in case - but her first language?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2006, 11:24:54 AM »
I am sure Catalina was fluent in Castilian as her mother will make sure of that. However I do not see why she couldn't also manage English and French. Surely Catalina can speak English as she was also an English Princess.  :(
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bell_the_cat

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Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2006, 12:44:48 PM »
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I am sure Catalina was fluent in Castilian as her mother will make sure of that. However I do not see why she couldn't also manage English and French. Surely Catalina can speak English as she was also an English Princess.  :(


The language of court was French. English was the language of the people and was just starting to be used in literature - e.g. Chaucer, perhaps as a reaction against the French war. So it's quite possible that Catalina only spoke English with servants.
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