Author Topic: John of Gaunt's Children  (Read 15590 times)

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2006, 02:40:32 PM »
Thanks Kim! I've been looking for more genealogical info on Constance Cornwall but can't find anything.  :P
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2006, 02:43:17 PM »
I think that is because she died before she had any children. There is not a lot of info out there
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2006, 02:45:49 PM »
Yes.  :P Does anyone know if John of Gaunt had any illegitimate children?

EDIT: Decided to get off my backside and find out. He had a daughter, Blanche, by Marie de St Hilaire. She lived 1360-1388/9 and was married to Sir Thomas Morieux.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Prince_Lieven »
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

ilyala

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2006, 05:35:59 PM »
so he cheated on his first wife too, the rat!

happy new year to you too, prince :)

edited to add: yes, henry 4th erased the beauforts from the throne line, but he did confirm their legitimacy. i think that is very significant. all of them were born outside the marriage and it would have been very difficult to make many people accept them as heirs to the throne... i'm pretty sure henry had no obligation to confirm his brothers' legitimacy. and i'm sure he did the best he could in the situation.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by ilyala »

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2006, 05:39:16 PM »
Thanks ilyala!  :D

Yep, this Blanche was an exact contemporary of Philippa. Maybe calling her Blanche was John's way of saying sorry.  ;D ;D
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2006, 05:40:41 PM »
Quote

edited to add: yes, henry 4th erased the beauforts from the throne line, but he did confirm their legitimacy. i think that is very significant. all of them were born outside the marriage and it would have been very difficult to make many people accept them as heirs to the throne... i'm pretty sure henry had no obligation to confirm his brothers' legitimacy. and i'm sure he did the best he could in the situation.


Good point ilyala. Henry had absolutely no need to legitimate the Beauforts. He also had no need to keep them in succession anyway, since his wife gave him four strapping sons.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

ilyala

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2006, 05:45:13 PM »
i think it was more of a point. 'i accept you as my brothers, but you were born outside the marriage so you can't claim the throne.' in the stuarts thread we discussed how many people felt relieved that james 2nd's son with anne hyde died because he was conceived before the marriage... a legal marriage... you can't be born 20 years before and claim to be totally legitimate. no actual nobleman would have just stood and watched that.

oh and about cardinal beaufort: it's interesting that shakespeare makes him out as a total villain. the beauforts were tudor ancestors...
::)

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2006, 06:02:25 PM »
I agree with what you said about Henry IV and the Beauforts, ilyala.

About the cardinal, maybe Shakespeare was trying to show how innocent Henry VI (Henry VII's uncle) was corrupted and misled by the 'evil' cardinal.  ;D ;D
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

ilyala

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2006, 06:20:56 PM »
maybe queen elizabeth felt that she was being objective if she allowed one of her ancestors to be villified like that. that would mean that the good things that are said about the other ancestors are also true...  ;D

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2006, 06:22:08 PM »
Who knows?  ;D ;D

Anyone know anything interesting about Joan Beaufort?
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ilyala

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2006, 06:23:20 PM »
which one? :P

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2006, 06:25:41 PM »
John and Katherine's daughter, Lady Westmorland. I wonder if she was at all close to her sister Elizabeth - both of them married English noblemen.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2006, 10:49:09 AM »
Do any portraits or likenesses of any of John's children apart from Henry IV exist?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2006, 11:02:32 AM »
Here's Cardinal Beaufort (from his tomb in Winchester) - sorry couldn't find a better angle!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2006, 11:26:01 AM »
Thanks bell!  :D
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."