Author Topic: John of Gaunt's Children  (Read 15490 times)

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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John of Gaunt's Children
« on: December 31, 2005, 10:19:18 AM »
Hi everyone. I'd like to know more about John of Gaunt's children by his three wives. Philippa already has her own thread on the Iberian board.

By Blanche of Lancaster:
1. Philippa, Queen of Portugal (1360-1415)
2. Elizabeth, Duchess of Exeter (1363-1425)
3. Henry IV (1367-1413)

By Constanza of Castile:
1. Catalina, Queen of Castile (1372-1418 )

By Katherine Swynford:
1. John Beaufort, Marquess of Dorset (1371-1410)
2. Henry, Cardinal Beaufort (1375-1447)
3. Thomas Beaufort, Duke of Exeter (1377-1426)
4. Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland (1379-1440)

How did these siblings relate to each other? Does anyone know? Was Henry IV close to his sisters, or his Beaufort siblings? Did any of the family keep in touch with Catalina after she went to Spain? I think she was raised by her mother, though, wasn't she?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Prince_Lieven »
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ilyala

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2005, 10:55:59 AM »
the beauforts rose to power when henry iv came to the throne. even if he eliminated them from the line of the throne, he still helped them a lot.

catalina was the odd one out of the bunch. i imagine that if anyone was in conflict, it was her. one because john beaufort was born the same time as her, so catherine swynford was john of gaunt's mistress while he was married to constanza, and i'm sure that must have left some kind of scarr in the family relations, while the lancaster children's mother was already dead and they were probably more indifferent to the whole mistress situation. two because constanza was a foreigner and the two other wives were english. i'm pretty sure john of gaunt's marriage to constanza was purely political, and the fact that he had met catherine by that time might have made it quite strained. i am not sure how much he loved blanche, but since he married catherine, he must have loved her quite a lot. and that doesn't go well with another marriage.

the fact that the beauforts rose to power with the lancaster speaks volumes.

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2005, 11:00:27 AM »
Thanks ilyala.  ;) You're probably right about Catalina. Even if she felt set apart from the Beauforts, it was unlikely she could have been close to Philippa or Elizabeth either, given the age difference.

BTW, I think John sincerely loved Blanche. He held commemorations on the anniversary of her death several years after she had died.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

ilyala

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2005, 11:04:57 AM »
honestly, i don't know much about any of the children except henry 4th. i'm just guessing most of it. maybe catalina received an english education (her mother died when she was young so her father was probably responsible for it) and her mother's origin didn't matter all that much. but the truth is that history showed that english and iberians don't mix very well :)

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2005, 11:08:27 AM »
Actually, Catalina was 22 when her mother died. But you're right, I think her future had always reflected the Iberian side of her character - she was thought of perhaps more of a Castilian princess than an English one. And she ended up marrying a Castilian king! ;)
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ilyala

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2005, 11:13:06 AM »
 :-/ really? constanza died so late? and they only had one child? well for that time it's quite little... that pretty much backs my theory :)

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2005, 11:15:21 AM »
Constanza lived 1354-1394. She was younger than Katherine Swynford. They also had a son, John, who died aged about 4 or 5 I think. From then on John was pretty much occupied with Katherine.
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umigon

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2005, 11:15:36 AM »
Catalina was actually born on March 31st, 1373, after Castilian sources.

John and Constanza's marriage was political. Constanza's father had been killed by his bastard half-brother, Enrique II, who usurped his throne. Constanza and her sisters Beatriz and Isabel had fled to France. There Beatriz, who was considered by many the legitimate Queen of Castile, died unmarried aged 18 and Constanza inherited the claim and soon after married John of Gaunt. They both proclaimed themselves king and queen of Castile and they declared war to Constanza's uncle. The confilct wouldn't be solved until 15 year-old Catalina married her distant cousin Enrique (future Enrique III of Castile) in 1388.

And about the relationship between Blanche's children and the Beauforts, wasn't Henry IV the King that passed the Parlamentary Act which declared that the Beauforts were not able to succeed even though they had been legitimated by their parents marriage?

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2005, 11:20:27 AM »
Thanks Umigon!  :) So Catalina was already married before Constanza's death! She was probably brought up with Spanish as her first language. BTW, didn't Constanza's sister Isabel marry John's brother Edmund?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2005, 11:23:12 AM »
Quote

And about the relationship between Blanche's children and the Beauforts, wasn't Henry IV the King that passed the Parlamentary Act which declared that the Beauforts were not able to succeed even though they had been legitimated by their parents marriage?


Well, this relationship wouldn't have been complicated the same way Catalina's was with the Beauforts. Blanche was long dead by the time John and Katherine had their first child, and Katherine had been governess to Philippa and Elizabeth, so it's possible that they liked her. I'm just guessing of course.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

umigon

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2005, 11:26:19 AM »
Yes, she certainly did. Constanza was pretty, well educated and had a strong character. She got on very well with John of Gaunt and, although she hated Katherine Swynford, she finally ignored her husband's relationship. They were united by their desire of being crowned king and queen of castile. Isabel was also a pretty girl, but spoilt and not very nice. Some Spanish courtiers in the French exile thought she was stupid and that she would be the cause of much trouble... but i don't think her behaviour in England was that bad.


Yes, Catalina had already gone to Castile, where she receieved further education, while she waited for her young husband to grow up. The marriage was consummated in 1393, but their first child wouldn't be born until 1401.

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2005, 11:28:03 AM »
Thanks Umigon! I have to go now so I want to take the chance to say Happy New Year to the posters on this forum, and in particular on the Tudor board!  :D :D
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2006, 09:58:54 AM »
The feud between Cardinal Beaufort and Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester is a central feature of Shakespeare's
Henry VI Part 2. The Cardinal is one of the few "evil" characters in Shakespeare not to have a "human" redeeming side (e.g. Richard III).

He's just "as bad as bad can be." I've never heard anything good about the real cardinal, so maybe Shakespeare got it right.

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2006, 01:13:02 PM »
BTW, does anyone know anything about Elizabeth's later marriage to John Cornwall, Lord Fanhope? Was this considered 'marrying down'? She had a daughter by him, Constance, who died in 1429.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: John of Gaunt's Children
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2006, 02:31:18 PM »
One of the marriage gifts to John Cornwall from the King was the manor of Amphill. He had a castle built on the land. He also had two illigitimate sons.Their daughter Constance was married to John Maltravers Earl of Arundel.( or at least betrothed)
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