Author Topic: Did any of the Romanovs survive?  (Read 138459 times)

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Offline Abby

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #150 on: July 12, 2004, 10:32:26 PM »
Ohh really? I didn't know Kyril got the human parts. Massie doesn't mention that in his book. Well couldn't they do DNA testing on those, then? To see if they were related to the bones found in the mass grave? (Ideally speaking)

Penny do you think they could be remains of the bodies that Yurovsky claimed he tried to burn?
(Alexandra and Alexei...by mistake Demidova and Alexei...later Anastasia and Alexei)

Offline Abby

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #151 on: July 13, 2004, 08:11:48 AM »
Ohh so those bones weren't human?
So Kyril might have buried some chickens?

Offline Candice

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #152 on: July 13, 2004, 04:36:54 PM »
Abby, I like that about Kyrill buring some chickens, that is funny!  

I do belief  that a couple of the children did survive.  I believe also that the church and others involved in the mystery know the whereabouts and are protecting the survivers and I don't blame them.  

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Candice »

Offline Alexa

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #153 on: July 13, 2004, 04:44:49 PM »
Personally, I can't see how any of them did survive, although I would love it if one of them did.  Yes, there was a lot of chaos in the basement when the family was killed, but with the number of bullets shot, I just can't see anyone living through it.  Even if one of two survived the initial onslaught, they would have died soon after, or killed if discovered.  And even if one of the guards took pitty on a survivor and wanted to help, what could he do?  If he hid her in the forest until he could come back for her, chances are she would have died in the mean time due to blood loss.

JMHO

Alexa

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #154 on: July 20, 2004, 02:50:12 PM »
Try to think out of the box which so many historians have placed us.

Let's take one of the first eye witnesses, a Whites' investigators, Capt. Malinevsky of the Officers' Commission who is reported as having said  [p. 69 of File on the Tsar by Summers and Mangold]:  "As a result of my work on this case I became convinced that the imperial family was alive.  It appeared to me that the Bolsheviks had shot someone in the room in order to simulate the murder of the imperial family...."

There were 5 bodies of Austrian guards found near the Four Brothers mine by the Whites [p. 166 File On the Tsar].  Could  these soldiers been the real victims and it was their bodies taken away in the truck that night of 16 / 17 July 1918 from the Ipatiev House?

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline kensue

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #155 on: July 20, 2004, 03:19:40 PM »
AGRBear,

What would be the point in the Bolshies saving the family?  After more than 80 years, we never heard credible evidence that Moscow was holding them to use as pawns with the British or the Allies in general.  Lenin made it very clear that he wanted to wipe out the entire Romanov clan and he came close to doing it.

kensue

Offline Abby

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #156 on: July 20, 2004, 03:36:50 PM »
I am halfway through the "The Fate of the Romanovs", which is in favor of the murder theory, and I just finished "The File on the Tsar", which, as everyone knows, tries to prove that they escaped.. and I have to say that I really can't make up my mind as to what happened, and the main thing is that the bodies were lying in that grave for so long, and being tampered with, so that any kind of alterations in DNA could have occured. And there are so many eyewitnesses who claimed to have seen the Romanovs after their "death". However these can be dispelled as wishful thinkers.. As I read in one book (I forget which--there's so many!) a Perm resident who claimed to have seen Anastasia and her brother in town was later debunked when the "grand duchess" and "tsarevich" turned out to be a peasant couple...
"sightings" such as this one probably ran rampant in confusion-stricken Russia.
I would like to beleive that they lived. I would.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #157 on: July 20, 2004, 04:22:10 PM »
Quote
AGRBear,

What would be the point in the Bolshies saving the family?  After more than 80 years, we never heard credible evidence that Moscow was holding them to use as pawns with the British or the Allies in general.  Lenin made it very clear that he wanted to wipe out the entire Romanov clan and he came close to doing it.

kensue


Is it  possible they were using Nicholas II as a bargining chip to use for the sale of guns which was being set up by individuals who hoped to make a huge profit at both ends of this deal ....  ???

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #158 on: July 20, 2004, 04:32:51 PM »
So AGRBear...

You think that the soldiers were the real bodies found and that the IF was secreted away...Hmmm- well a bunch of soldiers with some of them being middle aged women and girls in their early twenties...Very Odd Soldiers dont you think...especially soldiers with the same DNA as Prince Phillip...

Well I guess thats thinking out of the box...

R

Offline RomanovFan

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #159 on: July 20, 2004, 05:44:24 PM »
Quote

We know for certain that Tsarevitch Alexei was one of the missing bodies.  Given his hemophilia, everyone concedes that he could not have survived long.  A fall at Bieloviezhe and later events at Spala nearly killed him...What would bullets and beatings and stabbings do? .


I read in Peter Kurth's book (TSAR: The Lost World of N & A) that after the guards stopped shooting, Alexei was heard moaning on the floor, so he did survive the actual firing, but I also read the Yurovsky shot him in the ear at point blank range twice. Do you think that's what really killed the Tsarevitch or do you think he bled to death? I mean, if someone is shot in the head from that close up, wouldn't a person die instantly?
~LESLIE~

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Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #160 on: July 20, 2004, 06:09:37 PM »
You misunderstood my point. I believe Yurovsky shot Alexei in the head and killed him, as he reported. My other point was to say "IF" Yurovsky lied and had not shot him in the head, Alexei STILL would have died very soon afterwards as a result of the other injuries and his hemophilia, so the fact that his body is missing can not be taken as very stong evidence that he 'survived'.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #161 on: July 20, 2004, 11:16:34 PM »
Quote
So AGRBear...

You think that the soldiers were the real bodies found and that the IF was secreted away...Hmmm- well a bunch of soldiers with some of them being middle aged women and girls in their early twenties...Very Odd Soldiers dont you think...especially soldiers with the same DNA as Prince Phillip...

Well I guess thats thinking out of the box...

R


I'm not sure what you mean about a bunch of soldiers being middle aged women and girls.  

And,  you are assuming this is what I think what happen.  Since I wasn't there I don't know what happen.  All I can do is ask questions and mull over various theories.

I believe what I asked was a theory which has Yurovsky and his guards killing  5 other guards in the basement instead of  Nicholas II and the others.  And, it was these five bodies which were taken to the Four Brother's Mine that early morning of 17 July 1918.

Since I stated the pages in  Summers and Mangold's book with a similar theory,  I'm not the only person who thinks this might have been possible.

And, this is thinking "outside the box" which I hope is allowed on this thread.

I do believe this thead asks:  Did any of the Romanovs survive?

Soooooo,   if they did, how was that possible?  The obvious answer:  No one killed them that night.  So, I'm asking questions to see if that was possible.

As for Alexei, if he was not killed that night, I believe there were some hemophiliacs who survived into their twenties so he may have.  Since transfusions were coming into their own during WWI,  perhaps,  he might have lived a few years longer those who had died before him.  Don't jump all over me because that was just a wild thought  ;D.  Just let us know if this was possible.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline ken

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #162 on: July 21, 2004, 09:11:20 AM »
Hello all.  My name is Ken and I have only viewed this site with it's boards since last week and I am very impressed.  I have learned a great deal and you all have opened my mind to numerous possibilties as to the royal family.
I have often thought, if I may add my two cents, that after the guards used their bayonets, that there was a discovery of diamonds and of course the frenzy to find as many jewels as possible on the bodies. What if......just if......a soldier or 2 .....decided that there was even more on the bodies (whether in body cavities or in the clothing) and decided to move or take the bodies. that would account for soldiers searching trains and 2 bodies missing from the remains.
It could come down to greed among a soldier or two that simply was awe struck at riches he could never hope for in his wildest dreams. I would like to think more along romantic lines such as the soldier who took Anastasia supposedly, but I feel human nature could have had a part.
thnx for letting me share with you all.
kenny

Offline Abby

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #163 on: July 21, 2004, 09:29:33 AM »
Hi! Nice to have you.
I think that's a very good theory on what happened, and I've never heard that spin before. Do you think that the soldiers would search the trains for Anastasia when they knew she was already dead? I doubt they would let a dead body on a train.

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #164 on: July 21, 2004, 10:05:20 AM »
Two points here.
1. for Agr.  According to research into the history of Blood transfusions, the first available technology in WWI was only in the British Army.  Safe and effective transfusion technology did not arrive in Russia until the late 1920s.

2. Read the Yurovski account, Ken.  The instant Yurovski found out there were valuables, he took immediate control over the bodies and made it clear that any soldier looting the bodies would be shot. The bodies were watched closely and not fully searched until out of the house and at the mine.  Penny and Greg conclude after exhaustive research that this is the only possible point in the known sequence of events for any body to go missing. See their book for the full explanation
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »