Did AA have an undiagnosed mental illness...

[helenazar]

...after she dropped her old identity and took on her new identity as "Anna Anderson"? Since some of you seem to want to discuss this point, here is a thread for it!

[helenazar]

So a girl who had been declared legally insane, and was so desperate to ditch her life and identity that she tried to kill herself, would be a perfect candidate for this club!

Absolutely!

Only the insane prefer to make their impact at the bottom of the canal. Other delusional players prefered that such a girl impacted on the world stage, but the exercise proved fruitless, for there was nothing to gain.

I don't believe she was ever declared legally insane.

FS was declared legally insane in 1916.   FS was AA.

So how come AA was NOT insane?
Kind regards
Chat Noir

Um, she wasn't? That is debateable. She certainly exhibited signs of mental illness. After all she was a lady who pretended to be a dead princess for decades. She lived in her later years in squalor with 68 cats and dogs. While she may never have been declared legally insane, it is possible that she was.

Thank you. Just proving my point here.
Kind regards
Chat Noir

She was declared legally insane as FS, but not as AA, or Anastasia Manahan. She did show signs of mental illness all her life.

So, she was declared legally insane as FS but not as AA? A remarkable recovery, or what? I'm afraid the Schanzkowska theory gets thinner by the day, DNA or not.
Kind regards
Chat Noir

I don't think it was much of a "recovery". Clearly you know little about Anna Manahan's last years. She was clearly suffering from substantial mental illness.

Jack Manahan was able to keep Anastasia Manahan out of mental wards for the last years of her life thanks to his devoted care, residual respect in the Charlottesville community for his position in society, and the bemused tolerance of a college town for a couple of eccentrics. I frequently saw her about town. Was she insane? She was functional, provided that there was a lot of care. If you look at Andersen's pattern throughout her life, she did rely substantially upon others. There were at least two incidents where she was confined. If she wasn't Anastasia --- do we all agree that she wasn't? --- then you are looking at a severe disassociation from self if she genuinely believed she was the Grand Duchess. After a certain point, I think she did.

Regards,

Simon

Yes, she was. Like so many other old people.
Kind regards
Chat Noir

Like so many other mentally ill old people. Her behavior went far beyond the normal pattern of eccentricity, trust me. I lived in the neighborhood, passed the house on a regular basis. Insane may be strong, but she was certainly not like many other old people.

She wasn't all that stable when she was younger, either. She did spend years pretending to be Anastasia, and probably came to believe it because of her mental illness. She was completely disfunctional in ordinary life.

[Louis_Charles]

And of course, I am the first to post! Talk about mental illness

Anyway, can we agree that unless a claimant had material hopes from the deception (I think you can kind of sorta make a case for Eugenia Smith and Michael Goleniewski in this category), that there is some form of mental illness present in someone who claims (and apparently believes) that he or she is someone he or she is not?

I would accept Anna Andersen as mentally healthy if I accept her as the Grand Duchess Anastasia. In that case, she becomes a person of amazing mental tenacity, to maintain the claim in the face of rejection by close members of her family. The trouble is, once she is ruled out as AN, then she is either cuckoo for cocoa puffs for being delusional, or engaged in conscious deception. Or is there a middle ground of behavior that would explain what is going on here?

Oh, and Annie, Manahan was NOT completely dysfunctional in ordinary life. There is ample testimony to that, and if it matters, I saw her do things like eat and interact with her husband in a public place.

[Annie]

Thanks for moving everything over here, Helen! I hope we can discuss this topic only here and not her shoes, ears, etc. I believe she remained mentally ill after she changed identities and pretended to be Anastasia. I believe mental illness led her to try to kill herself. I believe it was a reason for her charade. It is also possible she came to believe it herself because of her problem.

Oh, and Annie, Manahan was NOT completely dysfunctional in ordinary life. There is ample testimony to that, and if it matters, I saw her do things like eat and interact with her husband in a public place.

I didn't mean like that, I meant she would be incapable of holding a job, living on her own, making her own important decisions, etc.

[Belochka]

To stare at the water below and contemplate your own suicide is insane.

To readily accept an identity not your own is insane.

To be convinced by others to "recall" a foreign heritage far more financially and politically rewarding than your own is insane.

Such actions lack the presumption of a mentally stable person

[ChatNoir]

To be convinced by others to "recall" a foreign heritage far more financially and politically rewarding than your own is insane.

Such actions lack the presumption of a mentally stable person

Silly me. I thougth that was called cheating.
Kind regards
Chat Noir

[Belochka]

Silly me. I thougth that was called cheating.
Kind regards
Chat Noir

Cheating whom?

To be taught to believe a false presumption is not an act any reasonable bystander would have accepted.

[ChatNoir]

Cheating whom?

To be taught to believe a false presumption is not an act any reasonable bystander would have accepted.

And that's why I don't go to church!
Is English your first language?
Kind regards
Chat Noir

[Belochka]

Is English your first language?
Kind regards
Chat Noir

Your question is off base and irrelevant to this thread Chat noir. Please direct your thoughts to the topic under discussion.

Thank you.

[catt.sydney]

To stare at the water below and contemplate your own suicide is insane.

To readily accept an identity not your own is insane.

To be convinced by others to "recall" a foreign heritage far more financially and politically rewarding than your own is insane.

Such actions lack the presumption of a mentally stable person

Please understand that in asking this - I am NOT attacking anyone's rationality or implying any insults but is it possible that - due to some state of stress- AA forgot her 'true self'...(emotional amneasia? sp ) and accepted another - more exciting - one?  

[jeremygaleaz]

Please understand that in asking this - I am NOT attacking anyone's rationality or implying any insults but is it possible that - due to some state of stress- AA forgot her 'true self'...(emotional amneasia? sp ) and accepted another - more exciting - one?  

No, I don't think she ever forgot her 'true self'-if you take a close look at her "rescue story" the people that rescued her the "tchaikovskys" have a more than passing resemblance to her real family, the Schankowskys.

FS's niece Waltraud, gave an interview in which she stated that her aunt often liked to "play princess" even as a small child, pretending not to be related to her other siblings, walking apart from them to church, the market, etc. So what ever it was, the root was there when she was a small child.    

[ChatNoir]

FS's niece Waltraud, gave an interview in which she stated that her aunt often liked to "play princess" even as a small child, pretending not to be related to her other siblings, walking apart from them to church, the market, etc. So what ever it was, the root was there when she was a small child.    

And her sister Gertrude said the opposite, that she was "just one of the girls".  Quite frankly, I don't think her niece Waltraud knew Franzisca as a small child,
Kind regards
Chat Noir

[jeremygaleaz]

And her sister Gertrude said the opposite, that she was "just one of the girls".  Quite frankly, I don't think her niece Waltraud knew Franzisca as a small child,
Kind regards
Chat Noir

No, but her brother did fairly well. And you leave out the fact that Gertrude lived until 95/96 and fully accepted AA as her sister FS. If Gertrude actually made that statement, if fairly safe to say that it has been taken out of context.

[Grand_Duke_Paul]

No, but her brother did fairly well. And you leave out the fact that Gertrude lived until 95/96 and fully accepted AA as her sister FS. If Gertrude actually made that statement, if fairly safe to say that it has been taken out of context.

According to information I have Gertrude died in the late 1960's not 1995/96.    

[Grand_Duke_Paul]

And her sister Gertrude said the opposite, that she was "just one of the girls".  Quite frankly, I don't think her niece Waltraud knew Franzisca as a small child,
Kind regards
Chat Noir

According to some old posts sent to me by email, this had all been previously discussed, and it turns out that Waltrud gets paid nicely for these interviews, and says things that contradict what Gertrude said in depositions.
So who are we to believe the sister that knew her or the niece that didn't?