Did AA have an undiagnosed mental illness...

[ChatNoir]

No, but her brother did fairly well. And you leave out the fact that Gertrude lived until 95/96 and fully accepted AA as her sister FS. If Gertrude actually made that statement, if fairly safe to say that it has been taken out of context.

Maybe you are right. Maybe AA indeed WAS Gertrudes sister. The only things that disturb me a bit, are the following: Why did not Gertrude come forward when pictures of "Fräulein Unbekannt" were posted all over Germany? Why did, in fact, nobody come forward to identify her, not even Doris Wingender? Since Franzisca had been hospitalized at least 4 times before this happened, why did not a single doctor or nurse recognize her? And why did not a single member of her family, even Gertrude, dare to sign an affidavit stating that she was Franzisca?
Curious and curiouser.
Kind regards
Chat Noir

[Tania]

  You know, 'family' and individuals in a family (of course I'm not speaking from that of any royal household) are not always what they seem to be to those who think they know them. [Even family members can be very disappointing] Some individuals from some families, often do 'betray' other members of their families for many times their own gain. [Some have even known to kill for this gain] Selfishness, greed, control remain their whole view, their only remaining connects. No conscience. In the end, they are not worth anything, not even to themselves. Real families never have any hidden agenda(s). Real families, do the right thing, always.

Most times with these type of individuals, it's not for the good of the family as a whole! Sometimes family will recognize another, sometimes never. This in itself is very dysfunctional when they deny another family member. Why indeed if one spent a lifetime with family, would not even just one member step forward and do the right thing, stating yes or no ? Imagine, this person was hospitalized 4 times and no one home...to respond, ever. As for medical staff, who really knew who ?

Lots of questions...

Tatiana+

Maybe you are right. Maybe AA indeed WAS Gertrudes sister. The only things that disturb me a bit, are the following: Why did not Gertrude come forward when pictures of "Fräulein Unbekannt" were posted all over Germany? Why did, in fact, nobody come forward to identify her, not even Doris Wingender? Since Franzisca had been hospitalized at least 4 times before this happened, why did not a single doctor or nurse recognize her? And why did not a single member of her family, even Gertrude, dare to sign an affidavit stating that she was Franzisca?
Curious and curiouser.
Kind regards
Chat Noir

[Annie]

 And why did not a single member of her family, even Gertrude, dare to sign an affidavit stating that she was Franzisca?
Curious and curiouser.
Kind regards
Chat Noir

It makes sense to me that they wouldn't. She could have been in a lot of legal and financial trouble if she were exposed as making a false claim. They didn't want to cause any pain to her, or themselves, so they backed out gracefully. Imagine too how upset she'd be at them, and then they'd have to drag her home, kicking and screaming, hating them? She would likely have served time for her false claim, and been responsible for the costs of it. She may have gotten off on an insanity plea, but then she'd have been put away. Also, her supporters could have faced charges.

Felix was quoted as saying, 'if she is my sister, I won't have to be responsible for her, will I?" so this WAS on their minds. They were afraid of being stuck with some of her expenses, or having to support her for the rest of her life. It was best, as Felix later said, to 'leave her to her 'career' as Anastasia.' That way, she'd at least be provided for for life, she'd always find someone to take "Anastasia" in, but nobody wanted poor Franziska.  Also, you'd be surprised how fast some 'family' will turn their backs on you if they think it's going to inconvenience them in any way for any time, or even worse financially(personal experience) But I really think they felt it was best for all of them PERSONALLY (though not the courts, or the world in general) if she continued her charade. She really was backed into a situation where she really never could admit it even if she wanted to. She had too much to lose. When she married her husband John Manahan, he made her sign a paper swearing she was Anastasia!

[Louis_Charles]

You know, 'family' and individuals in a family (of course I'm not speaking from that of any royal household) are not always what they seem to be to those who think they know them. [Even family members can be very disappointing] Some individuals from some families, often do 'betray' other members of their families for many times their own gain. [Some have even known to kill for this gain] Selfishness, greed, control remain their whole view, their only remaining connects. No conscience. In the end, they are not worth anything, not even to themselves. Real families never have any hidden agenda(s). Real families, do the right thing, always.

Most times with these type of individuals, it's not for the good of the family as a whole! Sometimes family will recognize another, sometimes never. This in itself is very dysfunctional when they deny another family member. Why indeed if one spent a lifetime with family, would not even just one member step forward and do the right thing, stating yes or no ? Imagine, this person was hospitalized 4 times and no one home...to respond, ever. As for medical staff, who really knew who ?

Lots of questions...

Tatiana+

I wish I could agree with this post, but you lost me with the insistence as to what "real" families do; substitute the word "ideal" for "real", and I could more easily deal with the description.

There isn't a family alive without members that have agendas, or who make serious mistakes in dealing with each other. It could be argued that by their insistence upon staying in an untenable political position throughout his reign, Nicholas and Alexandra doomed their own children to the cellar at Ipatiev. As Tsarfan has pointed out on other threads, this stemmed largely from an irrational desire, and by desire I mean agenda,  to see Alexei on the throne, even though there was ample evidence his illness would not allow him to be an effective ruler.

I speak as a father, and someone who has tried to raised his son without agendas and trying to do the right thing, always. It can't be done, although it is a lofty goal.

[Tania]

Dear Grand Duke :

Geeze, I could have sworn the FA asked '. I thought the FA had the last word, and was respected on that alone ?

Why do people still continue to harang another when it has been substantiated already by the FA that a person is who they say they are ?

Like the FA said, if you have questioins about any poster, post to the FA directly ! Don't quibble on a thread that has nothing to do with this issue whatsoever, please.

Please kindly get on with the treads discussion and not bring everyone else down to your personal past times of bugging new people on board !

Tatiana+

I was told you would be this way, and at the moment it just amuses me that you spend so much time in such an exercise in futility.   How ever I am not going to play this game with you or your clique on the boards, you have a problem, PM me, otherwise keep it off of the threads.

[Annie]

I wish I could agree with this post, but you lost me with the insistence as to what "real" families do; substitute the word "ideal" for "real", and I could more easily deal with the description.

There isn't a family alive without members that have agendas, or who make serious mistakes in dealing with each other. It could be argued that by their insistence upon staying in an untenable political position throughout his reign, Nicholas and Alexandra doomed their own children to the cellar at Ipatiev. As Tsarfan has pointed out on other threads, this stemmed largely from an irrational desire, and by desire I mean agenda,  to see Alexei on the throne, even though there was ample evidence his illness would not allow him to be an effective ruler.

I speak as a father, and someone who has tried to raised his son without agendas and trying to do the right thing, always. It can't be done, although it is a lofty goal.

Very good points!

[Tania]

Correction :

"Ideal" !

Yes, your quite right Louis_Charles, it is 'ideal'.

As a mother, [& parent's] I think I know of what you speak. My husband and I are most fortunate, as the child we have raised, has and continues to do what's right. Although we are not perfect, we have and will always continue to do the same. I suppose it's in that knowledge and infinite bond, that we know that betrayal will never transpire with her, or with us. Now that's real comfort now and into our old age !

Thanks for your input. Cheers !

Tatiana

I wish I could agree with this post, but you lost me with the insistence as to what "real" families do; substitute the word "ideal" for "real", and I could more easily deal with the description.

There isn't a family alive without members that have agendas, or who make serious mistakes in dealing with each other. It could be argued that by their insistence upon staying in an untenable political position throughout his reign, Nicholas and Alexandra doomed their own children to the cellar at Ipatiev. As Tsarfan has pointed out on other threads, this stemmed largely from an irrational desire, and by desire I mean agenda,  to see Alexei on the throne, even though there was ample evidence his illness would not allow him to be an effective ruler.

I speak as a father, and someone who has tried to raised his son without agendas and trying to do the right thing, always. It can't be done, although it is a lofty goal.

[ChatNoir]

It makes sense to me that they wouldn't. She could have been in a lot of legal and financial trouble if she were exposed as making a false claim.

I am talking TWO YEARS before any claim was made by Clara Peuthert. And since Doris Wingender reported her missing, why didn't she come looking for her. And did the woman have absolutely no friends?
Kind regards
Chat Noir

[Annie]

 why didn't she come looking for her. And did the woman have absolutely no friends?
Kind regards
Chat Noir

Remember, she did try to kill herself. Perhaps she didn't feel that anyone cared. She may have been estranged from them. It was weeks before they noticed she was missing, so they must not have been in close contact. Of course, in those days, they didn't have the communications we have today either. But it is not out of the question that she did have no one to care, and that's why she felt she would rather die

[catt.sydney]

My last comment on this point.
    Grand Duke Paul remarked that he "does not care" what sort of impression his posts give of him to others and that he is not concerned that his statements could be taken in a negative way. He is openly indifferent to those who wonder if he ever posted here before - under another name. He is certainly free to do this, and to express such feelings.
   Nevertheless I am saddened by his brusque attitude. We all ought to try to be civil to each other even if we disagree with each other . I know that I have often failed in this - but I still try!
  GDP -- people will be more willing to hear out your well reasoned arguements, if you are willing to be a bit more respectful.

If you wish to condemn me to the FA -  go right ahead.

Catt Ashton-Sydney

 

[LisaDavidson]

This is a final warning on this topic area - stay on topic and stop with the personal remarks. Period, end of story. This topic can and will be locked. Kindly just discuss the topic.

[Forum Admin]

Grand Duke Paul has been suspended for continued violation of our policy on personal attacks, after repeated warning. Please stop this line of discussion, and as Lisa pointed out, return to topic.

[AGRBear]

Grand Duke Paul has been suspended for continued violation of our policy on personal attacks, after repeated warning. Please stop this line of discussion, and as Lisa pointed out, return to topic.

I wasn't around most of Friday, not at all yesterday,  so I didn't read everything that transpired here or other threads which caused Grand Duke Paul's suspension.

Whatever happen,  we've lost another posters and, once, again it saddens me when we loose someone.  

As for mental illness,  this is such a difficult subject,  and, even here in the year 2006 experts cannot agree.  It appears most of us poster  can and do have all kinds of opinions.

AGRBear

[Tsarina_Liz]

Back to the topic...

There's another thread out there about AAs scars being self-inflicted.  To me, it seems like she may have been a cutter.  Does anyone know the exact psyhological prerequisites for being considered one (I mean, besides the cuts themselves, having depression or bipolarism or something)?

[elfwine]

 Someone is suspended? The implication is that they might yet return...  so no waterworks required as yet  Agreb...

I still am pursuaded that  AA was emotionally unstable BUT as far as her being 'non functional'  (could she hold down a job or pay taxes) ... well did she ever try or was there always someone there to take care of her ?


[PS: I have removed certain posts from this site NOT IN  AN ATTEMPT TO HIDE ANYTHING but in order to please LisaD and the FA...  :-/]