Did AA have an undiagnosed mental illness...

[Tsarina_Liz]

Someone is suspended? The implication is that they might yet return...  so no waterworks required as yet  Agreb...

I still am pursuaded that  AA was emotionally unstable BUT as far as her being 'non functional'  (could she hold down a job or pay taxes) ... well did she ever try or was there always someone there to take care of her ?


[PS: I have removed certain posts from this site NOT IN  AN ATTEMPT TO HIDE ANYTHING but in order to please LisaD and the FA...  :-/]

Someone always took care of her.  If she had been left on her own she would have wandered off and never have been seen again as is the case with many mentally ill persons who manage to get themselves freed from homes and such.

[palatine]

And why did not a single member of her family, even Gertrude, dare to sign an affidavit stating that she was Franzisca?
Curious and curiouser.
Kind regards
Chat Noir

A possible reason why they would not claim Anna as their sister–if Anna was indeed Franzisca- was the rising popularity of the eugenics movement in Germany.  People who approved of eugenics theories believed that the mentally ill/disabled, as well as their relatives, should be discouraged from having children in order to eradicate hereditary health problems from society.  At the time Anna appeared, there was a real stigma attached to having a mentally ill family member, a stigma that only grew as the Nazis rose to power.

[etonexile]

AA seemed to have...."Delusions-of-Grandeur"...part of a larger picture of self-hatred and denial...I should imagine that she early on came to believe the interesting and romantic stories in her head...I hope they gave the mad soul some comfort....

"Tedders...aiming a .45 at the hat of a passing vicar is not a jolly idea...This ted needs a serious drink...seriously...."

[Tsarina_Liz]

A possible reason why they would not claim Anna as their sister–if Anna was indeed Franzisca- was the rising popularity of the eugenics movement in Germany.  People who approved of eugenics theories believed that the mentally ill/disabled, as well as their relatives, should be discouraged from having children in order to eradicate hereditary health problems from society.  At the time Anna appeared, there was a real stigma attached to having a mentally ill family member, a stigma that only grew as the Nazis rose to power.

Good point!  

[Tania]

Does anyone know where the information came from directly that AA was a cutter, or self-inflicted cutting ? Also, it may or may have not been offered in discussion, was there a report actually taken, documented that enumerated exactly what medical, and or mental health issues, etc. AA had?
Thanks for any and all input.

Tatiana+

[Tsarina_Liz]

Does anyone know where the information came from directly that AA was a cutter, or self-inflicted cutting ? Also, it may or may have not been offered in discussion, was there a report actually taken, documented that enumerated exactly what medical, and or mental health issues, etc. AA had?
Thanks for any and all input.

Tatiana+

There would have been no record of AA being a cutter even if she had been, "cutting" is a recently recognized psychological phemenon.  

There has been some speculation about the source of AAs wounds.  For FS supporters they came from the factory, for AN supporters they were the result of the Basement.  And there is another party that thinks her wounds were self-inflicted.  Given AAs depressed mental state (suicide, again, being a very large red flag alerting doctors to a patient's depressed state), it is not unlikly that she may have been a cutter.  Cutting is also an unhealthy coping mechanism.  AA, in her previous life, may have been under some sort of stress (everyday, psychological, family, relationship stress) that needed to be released (the same stress may have also caused a fugue state and the involuntary loss of the memories of her previous life).  Some people cut because they want attention, AA certainly liked the limelight later in life.  Being GD AN isn't something most people strive for.  And of course, some people cut themselves after traumatic experiences (such as a factory explosion).    

AA is known to have spent time in various mental hospitals for being a danger to herself and others.

And, for your sake Tania, I'll close with a disclaimer: I was not nor am I AAs primary care physician.  I at no time examined and assessed the mental state of the patient.  The beliefs expressed above are the beliefs of the author (me) created by her current and past knowledge of Anna Anderson, some of which was derived on this board, and her previous and past knowledge of psychological phenomena and psychological practice.  The author is not a licensed psychologist, psychiatrist, etc. al nor has she graduated from med school.  

[jeremygaleaz]

  AA, in her previous life, may have been under some sort of stress (everyday, psychological, family, relationship stress) that needed to be released (the same stress may have also caused a fugue state and the involuntary loss of the memories of her previous life).  Some people cut because they want attention, AA certainly liked the limelight later in life.  Being GD AN isn't something most people strive for.  And of course, some people cut themselves after traumatic experiences (such as a factory explosion).    

 

Well, I'm all for thinking she was under relationship stress. I've heard from two sources that she was actually sent away from her home as a teenager because her mother viewed her as "competition" for her stepfather's affections. Later, Gertrude and  I think Maria Juliana were sent away for the same reason.

[Annie]

Well, I'm all for thinking she was under relationship stress. I've heard from two sources that she was actually sent away from her home as a teenager because her mother viewed her as "competition" for her stepfather's affections. Later, Gertrude and  I think Maria Juliana were sent away for the same reason.

This is very interesting info. Knowing stuff like this can help us understand why she tried to kill herself. I could even speculate 'outside the box' that this stepfather was the father of her baby (be if full term, miscarriage or abortion) that is such a secret for some reason. What a sad life FS had to have had to want to die, and then abandon her real identity and claim another.

[Tania]

Would you kindly share with us if you read this info, or you 'heard' from two sources. For either whom shared this info with you, would you kindly share who they were, or from what book you obtained this info please ? It would be interesting to know what writer offered this for public knowledge, and what the date was of this particular writing. Thank you.

Tatiana+

Well, I'm all for thinking she was under relationship stress. I've heard from two sources that she was actually sent away from her home as a teenager because her mother viewed her as "competition" for her stepfather's affections. Later, Gertrude and  I think Maria Juliana were sent away for the same reason.

[Tsarina_Liz]

I know that AA was put in the Berlin mental hospital for attempted suicide, but all I can find on her other trips to mental institutions is they they were the result of AA being "a danger to herself and others."  Obviously this covers a myriad of mental problems/actions, does anyone out there have the specifics of these institutionalizations?  Did they result from her maniacal temper, from her tendencies to wander off and sleep in parks?  Did she actually threaten herself or others with a weapon or just a threat of death?

[jeremygaleaz]

This is very interesting info. Knowing stuff like this can help us understand why she tried to kill herself. I could even speculate 'outside the box' that this stepfather was the father of her baby (be if full term, miscarriage or abortion) that is such a secret for some reason. What a sad life FS had to have had to want to die, and then abandon her real identity and claim another.

Well, there's no record of FS ever being married, and we do know that she was "sexually active" prior to her jump-broken hymen on top of evidence of pregnancy discovered when she was taken to the asylum in Feb of 1920.

This is all speculation of course, but I imagine your "thinking outside the box" is possible. I can't remember where I heard this, but I believe that at the trial, or in a private interview, there was talk of FS as having been very "loose" in between her time at the asylums. This is of course, classic behaviour in women who have experienced sexual trauma at a young age. Living in L.A., the San Fernando Valley in particular at the moment,  and working in the entertainment industry, I've had occasion to run into working members of the " other hollywood"  and for many of the women who work in the "other hollywood" the story is, sadly, the same. Early trauma helping to lead to choice of dangerous and unhealthy lifestyle.  

This also might explain why FS's mother did not take to much of an interest in seeing her daughter when she resurfaced. Given the times they were living in, it was common to blame the victim (Sadly, that is still the  case many times- if, of course, that it what happened here) And mixed feelings of anger, disgust, guilt, denial, and fear could have played their part in keeping her daughter away from her.  

[jeremygaleaz]

Would you kindly share with us if you read this info, or you 'heard' from two sources. For either whom shared this info with you, would you kindly share who they were, or from what book you obtained this info please ? It would be interesting to know what writer offered this for public knowledge, and what the date was of this particular writing. Thank you.

Tatiana+

Can  give you only  one source on it, because I promised to keep the other one anonymous. He thinks that anyone who believes that AA was not FS is, frankly, uninformed or nuts, and what's no more phone calls at 2 in the morning from fanatics accusing him of being and agent of the KGB, Queen Elizabeth, nor does he like receiving hate mail. So I will respect his wishes.

So, here is the quote from Penny WIlson. My source is NOT Ian Lilburn, but the info is almost identical:


« Reply #67 on: May 17th, 2005, 11:05am »  Quote  Modify  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
on May 17th, 2005, 10:38am, AGRBear wrote: I thought Gertrude was living with FS before she was placed in an asylum in 1916?  

If this is true, then the family hadn't sent her off on her own.





I'm going to throw this out there, though I can't remember for sure where I heard it -- maybe from Ian Lilburn, who attended most of the post-War part of the trial:  He -- or whoever -- said that Franziska was sent to Berlin to work by her mother, who was recently remarried, and who didn't want an attractive teenaged daughter in the house with her new husband.  This could also explain Gertrude's appearance in Berlin shortly thereafter as Franziska's roommate, especially as she was only two years younger than Franziska -- if her birthdate claim is to be believed, and I don't see why not at this point.

The date of Marianne's second marriage might support this -- or disprove it.

I'll have to double-check my source at some point, and I do apologize for not having my notes to hand, but I'm fairly deep into the latest book and have all the Schanzkowsky stuff put away.