Grand Duke Georgiy Mikhailovitch and his family

[Kalafrana]

'Thanks for the update. Was Margaret of Denmark in England during the War ?'

If she was in a photograph taken in Harrogate in wartime she must have been!!!

A better question is how did she come to be nursing in England, given that Denmark was neutral?

Ann

[Eric_Lowe]

You framed my question nicely. Thanks Ann. 

[Saissa]

Yes, I think it went like this:

Crown Prince Pavlos
His Children (3 or 4 now?)
Prince Nikolaos
Prince Philippos
Princess Alexia
Her children (1 or 2?)
Theodora
Irene
Nancy Leeds Wynkoop
Alexandra Wynkoop

Another interesting side fact--there is another Romanov/Wynkoop connection. Peter & Militza’s great-granddaughter Elisabeth Freiin von Waldstätten (granddaughter of Nadezhda, Pss Orlov)  married a Wynkoop cousin of Alexandra Wynkoop in 1942.

Pavlos has 4 children: Maria-Olympia, Konstantinos-Alexios, Achileas-Andreas and Odysseas-Kimon, Alexia has three children: Arietta, Ana-María and Carlos

Please excuse the interruption, I am a newbie here at these forums, just joined today.

I am also an amateur genealogist and am currently trying to put together one big huge family tree with all the members of the british line of succession - adding in any catholic spouses and families as and when necessary. The longest list of the british line of succession I have found has over 1300 names.

In speaking of Prince Christopher of Greece and his first wife Nancy Leeds - his stepson was William Leeds Jr who married GD Xenia Georgievna of Russia.
William and Xenia had a daughter named Nancy Leeds who married Edward Wynkoop - they had a daughter Alexandra Leeds Wynkoop (bn 1959)

IF Nancy Leeds and Edward Wynkoop got married in 1945, why did they take 14 years to have a child? That does not seem natural.

 On the british line of succession I found these names - listed immediately after names from the family of Nikolai Nikolaievich Yeltchaninov.

Mark Burson Wynkoop (b. 1972), son of Elisabeth Wynkoop
Gregory Alexis Wynkoop (b. 1975), son of Elisabeth Wynkoop

If their mother Elisabeth is married to this cousin of Alexandra's - how exactly were these two women related? And how were they connected in the line of succession?

And how were they connected to Nikolai Yeltchaninov?
I understand the connection would be through grand duchess Xenia, but how was she related to this Nikolai Yeltchaninov family? And how was Xenia related to the Cousin Elisabeth?

Any response and answers would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Francesca Thomas
Canada
(no signature yet)

[Kalafrana]

Taking 14 years to produce a child does happen. In Britain before fertility treatment was developed it was not terribly uncommon for couples to give up hope of natural children, adopt one or more, and then produce a natural child, perhaps after 10 years of marriage. My family has some Maltese friends (very devout Catholics so I think we can exclude both contraception and fertility treatment!), who have two daughters, born 15 years apart!

Ann

[grandduchessella]

Elizabeth Wynkoop was born Baronin von Waldstatten. She married Christopher Wynkoop in 1970. Elizabeth was the daughter of Herbert Baron von Waldstatten and Irina Orlova, Princess Orlova. Irina was the daughter of  Nikolai Vladimirovich Orlov, Prince Orlov and Nadezhda Petrovna Romanov, Princess of Russia. Nadezhda was the daughter of Grand Duke Peter and Princess Militza of Montenegro. So Mark Wynkoop is also the descendant of a Romanov Grand Duke. I don't know about the other connections.

[grandduchessella]

Found this online:

"There is another Romanov connection in the family of Christopher Morgan Wynkoop, of Redbank, N. J., who is an actor. He is a cousin of Alexandra Wynkoop's, and is married to a Russian cousin of her mother's. Christopher's father is Burson Wynkoop, who was born in Long Branch, New Jersey and died February 24, 1987. His mother is Elizabeth Jenkins Wynkoop."

It was written by Christopher Wynkoop with the assistance of Alexandra Wynkoop.

[grandduchessella]

As to the  Nikolai Yeltchaninov connection--I believe they are all descendants of the Nassau/Oldenburgs:

 Nikolai Yeltchaninov goes through the morganatic Zarkenau line (the family of Constantin of Oldenburg) while the Wynkoops you mention come from the marriage of Alexandra Oldenburg to GD Nicholas (parents of GD Peter). Constantin and Alexandra were siblings.

Constantin--Ekaterina von Zarkenau--Tatiana von Plon--Nikolai Eltchaninov
Alexandra--Peter--Nadezhda--Irina--Elizabeth Wynkoop

[Превед]

Elizabeth Wynkoop was born Baronin von Waldstatten.

Actually, one cannot be born a Baronin (courtesy style) or Freifrau (official title), unless one is titled in one's own right. (Mostly the case with morganauts and illegitimate issue, many examples in the House of Hesse). Normally it's a title acquired by marriage. One is born a Freiin (official title) or Baronesse (courtesy style). It's the same difference as with Gräfin vs. Komtesse or княгиня vs. княжна.

And speaking of Slavic linguistics:

Nikolai Yeltchaninov goes through the morganatic Zarkenau line

Zarnekau is one of East Holstein and East Germany's many Slavic place names, etymologically linked to чёрный, meaning black. It's a real shame there is not more focus on East Germany's Slavic past and heritage.

[grandduchessella]

Elizabeth Wynkoop was born Baronin von Waldstatten.

Actually, one cannot be born a Baronin (courtesy style) or Freifrau (official title), unless one is titled in one's own right. (Mostly the case with morganauts and illegitimate issue, many examples in the House of Hesse). Normally it's a title acquired by marriage. One is born a Freiin (official title) or Baronesse (courtesy style). It's the same difference as with Gräfin vs. Komtesse or княгиня vs. княжна.

And speaking of Slavic linguistics:

Nikolai Yeltchaninov goes through the morganatic Zarkenau line

Zarnekau is one of East Holstein and East Germany's many Slavic place names, etymologically linked to чёрный, meaning black. It's a real shame there is not more focus on East Germany's Slavic past and heritage.

Well, this is not my specialty at all.   I was merely trying to help someone with a question. One site listed her as Elizabeth Baronin von Waldstatten, daughter of Herbert Baron von Waldstatten. I made the assumption (my bad, I guess) that she had the title at birth since it wasn't by marriage.

[Превед]

Well, this is not my specialty at all.  I was merely trying to help someone with a question. One site listed her as Elizabeth Baronin von Waldstatten, daughter of Herbert Baron von Waldstatten. I made the assumption (my bad, I guess) that she had the title at birth since it wasn't by marriage.

I know, I was just trying to forcefeed you possums my pedantic knowledge of arcane trivia relating to the baronage in the German lands dispense a Proustian atmosphere (much more healthily evoked through trivia than a greasy little madeleine) by going off about titular nuances and toponomy. (And yes, I am actually lying down as I write this, à la Proust. Wish my apartment was isolated with cork like his too, considering that my deaf neighbour has the radio on far too loudly!)

[grandduchessella]

LOL  I am always amazed at the things people know on the Forum.

[Kalafrana]

This discussion is becoming splendidly erudite!

So Countess Sophie Chotek was Grafin or Kontesse Sophie in German?

I note that Nadezhda Petrovna and Nikolai Orlov had a daughter. Did they have other children and did their marriage survive exile?

Ann

[Превед]

So Countess Sophie Chotek was Grafin or Kontesse Sophie in German?

Legally and officially she was Gräfin Sophie Chotek, socially she was Komtesse / Komteß / Komtess Sophie Chotek. NB AFAIK the courtesy title Komtesse usually (only?) applied to the lower, non-immediate nobility. An Erlaucht / Illustrious Highness would usually be styled Gräfin.

[grandduchessella]

Yes, I always saw her in the German papers as Grafin.
They had 2 daughters--Irina and Xenia.

But we are digressing far from the topic now.

[Kalafrana]

Thank you.

Back to topic!

Ann