Author Topic: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life  (Read 277197 times)

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Offline Labuanbajo

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2004, 07:33:41 PM »
I have a question about divorce in the Russian Orthodox Chrurch. In "War and Peace", Tolstoy satirizes the attempt by Ellen Bezukova to get a divorce by converting to Roman Catholicism and renouncing her marriage to Pierre. All the other charcters in the book are amazed at her ingenuity because they could never imagine a woman with a living husband marrying another man.

But one hundred years later, Natalie divorced her second husband to marry her third-Michael. Did the Church change its position or did Tolstoy employ dramatic license?

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2004, 04:34:35 AM »



Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2004, 04:39:24 AM »


« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 10:41:36 AM by Svetabel »

Johnny

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2004, 12:43:25 PM »
Quote
I have a question about divorce in the Russian Orthodox Chrurch. In "War and Peace", Tolstoy satirizes the attempt by Ellen Bezukova to get a divorce by converting to Roman Catholicism and renouncing her marriage to Pierre. All the other charcters in the book are amazed at her ingenuity because they could never imagine a woman with a living husband marrying another man.

But one hundred years later, Natalie divorced her second husband to marry her third-Michael. Did the Church change its position or did Tolstoy employ dramatic license?

I don't think Tolstoy took dramatic license. I am just speculating that the church changed its position. But considering the dogmatic nature of the Russian Orthodox Church that seems hard to believe. Another big no-no for the church was two brothers marrying two sisters. That was perhaps one big reason why the Montenegrin sisters were so despised and resented because they married two brothers. Even there I cannot understand how the church would allow it.

Johnny

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2004, 12:45:13 PM »
Quote



Isn't that Olga Alexandrovna and her husband in the background?

jfkhaos

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2004, 12:46:05 PM »
That is Olga Alexandrovna and Peter of Oldenburg.

Jane

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2004, 12:56:41 PM »
That is Olga Alexandrovna and Nikolai Kulikovsky in the background, long before their marriage.  This photo was taken around 1908 or so.  At the time, OA and Kulikovsky were "involved" although she was still married to Peter of Oldenburg.  That is NOT Peter of Oldenburg in the photo.

The general belief is that this photo was taken by Nathalie's husband, Vladimir Wulfert, on one of the many outings the five used to go on.  At the time, Wulfert was either unaware or ignoring the fact that MA and his wife were becoming closer.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Jane »

Johnny

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2004, 02:43:20 PM »
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The general belief is that this photo was taken by Nathalie's husband, Vladimir Wulfert, on one of the many outings the five used to go on.  At the time, Wulfert was either unaware or ignoring the fact that MA and his wife were becoming closer.

Wasn't Wulfert Natalia's first husbane? If so, does that mean that after this picture Natalia married yet another guy before marrying Mikhail?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Johnny »

Sarai_Porretta

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2004, 03:09:46 PM »
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Wasn't Wulfert Natalia's first husbane? If so, does that mean that after this picture Natalia married yet another guy before marrying Mikhail?


Wulfert was Natalia's second husband. Her first husband, which she married at age 16, was Sawa Mamontov, the music director of the Bolshoi Theatre.

Jane

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2004, 03:22:59 PM »
Actually, Nathalie's first husband was Sergei Mamontov, who was the cousin of Savva Mamontov.  Sergei Mamontov was the father of her daughter Nathalie (Tata).  The marriage ended in a relatively amicable divorce.

At the time the photo we are talking about was snapped, Nathalie was already married to Vladimir Valdimirovich Wulfert, who was her second husband.  The end to that marriage was decidedly NOT amicable.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Jane »

Offline Angie_H

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2004, 05:17:29 PM »
With all the support Michael  gave Olga concerning  Kulikovsky and how close they were I am surprised she estranged herself from him when he married Natasha

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2004, 08:10:18 PM »
Yes, it's an odd situation recounted in Michael and Natasha by Crawford (?). Olga was married to Peter Oldenberg and Col. Kulikovsky lived with them I believe. The impression (which could be wrong) is that Olga & Peter weren't intimate but she wasn't breaking her marriage vows with Col. Kulikovsky either just a rather intimate and awkward menage a trois. Similarly, Michael used to socialize with Natalie AND her husband and he took quite a few photos which I think appeared in the book. (I checked it out of the library so don't have it right at hand to check). Here's a wider version (sorry it's not larger) photo:

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline Labuanbajo

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2004, 08:28:31 PM »
The Emperor gave Natalya the title of Countess Brasova, the name of  Michael Alexandrovich's estate. Here's a photo shot before their marriage. Natalya is standing with her arm on Michael's shoulder. The man on the far left is presumed to be Natalya's father, Sergei Sheremetevsky. The man third from the left is the composer Sergei Rakhmaninov who was a close friend of Michael. The date of the photo is February 3, 1912.





Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2005, 09:04:13 PM »



Countess Brassova (far right) with friends at her's and  Michael's country estate. The Little girl is her daughter Natalia ( " Tata" ) by her first marriage.........

Arleen_Ristau

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2005, 03:19:25 PM »
Wonderful picture Mandie....where did it come from??  That is Natasha's father 3rd from the right, Sergei Shremetevsky.  The most important to ME is Jack the dog...the one on the right.  He was the dog Natasha and Michael loved so dearly, and even took to England with them.  They both took it very hard when he died. Jack had a most wonderful life with them.       ..Arleen