Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life

[PAVLOV]

I think this is one of the most tragic family stories of all. I have read the book a number of times, because it is that sort of book. I am always filled such pity for Natalia Brassova, one can hardly imagine the awful life she led after her son died. Living alone in a small room, no food or money, her clothes virtually in rags, and being treated like an outcast. Then dying of cancer all alone in a charity hospital.
It is just awful.
One thing that surprises me is that Empress Marie Feodorovna recieved her in London, when she was staying with her sister at Marlborough House.
This proves that the Empress did actually care, and was not that Imperious as one would imagine. But then she came from a very close knit family, and was a warmer, more caring person. Although she also had her moments ! 
I do not think Alexandra would have recieved Natalia, had she survived and lived in exile. She was too stuck up and prejudiced, and bore grudges against so many people. One of her characteristics I dislike the most, and probably one that contributed to her downfall.     

[Svetabel]

I think this is one of the most tragic family stories of all. I have read the book a number of times, because it is that sort of book. I am always filled such pity for Natalia Brassova, one can hardly imagine the awful life she led after her son died. Living alone in a small room, no food or money, her clothes virtually in rags, and being treated like an outcast. Then dying of cancer all alone in a charity hospital.
It is just awful.
One thing that surprises me is that Empress Marie Feodorovna recieved her in London, when she was staying with her sister at Marlborough House.
This proves that the Empress did actually care, and was not that Imperious as one would imagine. But then she came from a very close knit family, and was a warmer, more caring person. Although she also had her moments ! 
I do not think Alexandra would have recieved Natalia, had she survived and lived in exile. She was too stuck up and prejudiced, and bore grudges against so many people. One of her characteristics I dislike the most, and probably one that contributed to her downfall.     

Actually I am not surprised the Empress received Natalia. Remember that she received her AFTER the War, Revolution, death of Mikhail (the Empress though did not ler herself to think about him as a dead one) and escape from Russia. The times were differnet for them both after 1917 year. In her diary the Empress rather quietly speaks about Natalia's visit and only mention that her lady-in-waiting - I think Zenaida Mengden - was in a state of horror becouse of Brasova's coming up.
Also MF received Natalia in London, in 1914 I think.

[Teddy]

I do not think Alexandra would have recieved Natalia, had she survived and lived in exile. She was too stuck up and prejudiced, and bore grudges against so many people. One of her characteristics I dislike the most, and probably one that contributed to her downfall. 

Noncence, she have received the Princess Paley for example.

[PAVLOV]

Princess Paley was a completely different kettle of fish, as far as I know she was not twice divorced.

Does anyone else think Alexandra would have recieved Countess Brassova ? As far as I know she was not even allowed inside the GATCHINA PALACE or put her foot on any Imperial property.

[Maria_Pavlovna]

 There are many differences and similarities between Princess Paley and Countess Brassova.

Similarities between Olga and Natalia:

1. Two very beautiful women; both married with children.
2. Both became Mistresses of Grand Dukes not long after their first meeting. And later  Causing scandals.
3. Both became divorced when they each expected a baby with their Grand Duke Lovers.
4. Both became morganatic wives of Grand Dukes.
5. Both had sons out of wedlock with their Grand Dukes.
6. Both received titles and where exiled with their Grand Duke husbands.
7. Both became rich and in love with their Grand Dukes.
8. Both lost their Grand Dukes during the revolution.
9. Both lost their sons before their own death.
10. Both died penniless.

Differences between Olga and Natalia:

1. Olga was once divorced, Natalia was twice divorced.
2. Olga was a second wife of a Grand Duke; Natalia was a first wife of a Grand Duke.
3.  Olga's grand duke was an uncle of the Tsar. Natalia's grand duke was the brother of the Tsar and next in line after the Tsarevich.
4. Olga respected the Tsar and was a loyal subject and later was received because of her loyalty. While Natalia on the other hand join forces with the opposite party and disliked and insulted the Romanovs while she enjoyed her grand duke husband's status.


3 and 4 are the reasons why Alexandra disliked Natalia and saw her as a threat. There are no “what ifs” Alexandra never would or have received Natalia. It's not "a what if” it a fact, both women are dead. People can't make up what ifs of what already happened. 

[PAVLOV]

Thanks for the comparisons. I know very little about Princess Paley,except that she was very beautiful, had style and was obviously very intelligent as well. But sad to know that she died penniless. I was under the impression that she had sufficient time to smuggle her jewellery out of Russia, as they stayed in their palace in Tsarskoe for quite some time after the Revolution started.

I know that divorced women were anathema in most Royal Courts and were not recieved, as this would have been seen as condonement of divorce. Did the Russian Court have a different take on divorced women ?. If not, why was Princess Paley recieved by the Empress ?   

Sadly Mme Brassova was very openly critical of the Imperial family. She did not know which side her bread was buttered on. Pity.
 
My apologies, this may be a bit off the topic we are on, but I am just following on to what was discussed before.

[Svetabel]

I know that divorced women were anathema in most Royal Courts and were not recieved, as this would have been seen as condonement of divorce. Did the Russian Court have a different take on divorced women ?. If not, why was Princess Paley recieved by the Empress ?   

Becouse Princess Paley was a very wise and cunning woman who knew how to live in high-society and how to reach her ambitions - she wanted to white-wash her reputation (and so of her children in the future)  and be received at the Imperial Court by hook or by crook , and after all she was received by the Empress. Princess Olga was not a liberal-minded Natalia and never worsen her relations with the Romanovs.

[Aglaya]

GD Mikhail Alexandrovich with friends ca. 1908

The woman on his right shoulder is Natalie Wulfert and the officer on the left in that photo is her husband - Vladimir Wulfert.

Wulfert, Natalie and GD Mikhail

[Carolath Habsburg]

i love the caption of the book of those pictures!

"Going....going...GONE!!!"

xD

[Maria_Pavlovna]

Lol me too, Katia. It pretty funny. 

[PAVLOV]

Thanks Svetabel, you are probably right. I also read somewhere that a photographer in St Petersburg displayed her picture in his window, and that it was removed very quickly by order of the Empress. Maybe her life would have been easier if she had "towed' the line. But she was very independently minded and outspoken, I think. Neither of which would have endeared her to the Imperial family. I think it was very much a case of " do as you are told' in those days.

[violetta]

I`d like to tell you about ostracism that NBrassova had to face and about the steps tken by the Russian court to isolate her. This info was taken from the memoirs of Vladimir trubetskoy who served in the same Cuirassirs Regoment that Mikhail Aleksandrovich had served before him.The regiment was stationed in Gatchina.During his service in Gatchina M met Natalya Vulfert.The commander of the regiment,according to the established rules,if he notices a romance between the regiment officer and a wife of nother officer, should put a stop to this situation as,accodrding to the rules, such a romance is uncceptable in the military environment.one officer can`t seduce another officer`s wife. When the romnce was reveled to the Dowager Empress nd when it became clear it was something serious, MF`s attitude towards the Cuirasires stopped being favorable.In fct,she was a chef of the regiment.Officilally, she behaved properly but did nothing beyond the official scope of her duties although in the past her attitide and her visits had been less official. The commander sid that this woman i e NVulfert "cast  a shadow on the reputation of our regiment" and caused distress in our "beloved chef, The Impress mariya fedorovna".

Once, in August 1912 (I think the author made a mistake -it was later because MA and Natalya married in Vienna in utumn 1912.The author calls her Brassova and "wife" so maybe he is mistaken that she was his wife than? or my he thought that she was his wife?),there was an officer`s  gathering where they discussed  the issued connected with the officers` honor.One of the issues was about   Brassova.

"Gentlemen, said the colonel, we learned that one of our officers,lieutenant Khan -Erivanskiy, being in St Petersburg, dared to be present in the theatre, in a small group of people, in a company of a certain lady who cast a shadow on the reputation of our regiment and who distressed out beloved chef. This must have been enough for our officers to brek up ny relations with this woman...Unfortunately,one of our officer didn`t wnt to realize this. The fact that Khan -Erivanskiy appeared with her publicly is to interpreted as a sort of protest demonstration, as  a rebellion against the court - a deed unworthy of  Cuirassier officer.There are things we re not entitled to forgive so senior officers think that we don`t wnt to see then lieutenent in our ranks. he is supposed tom resign from military service within 24 hours".(this is not a literary translation,of course.it`s mine)

Everobody agreed

[Aglaya]

GD Mikhail

[PAVLOV]

Does anyone know why Grand Duches Olga denied ever having met Natalia Brassova before the Revolution ?
I find this very strange, as there are so many photographs of them together, on picnics etc.
I wonder what the reason for this was, could it perhaps be family related ?   

[Svetabel]

Does anyone know why Grand Duches Olga denied ever having met Natalia Brassova before the Revolution ?
I find this very strange, as there are so many photographs of them together, on picnics etc.
I wonder what the reason for this was, could it perhaps be family related ?   

Yes, there are many group-photos with Olga and Natalia, but they are from the period before Natalia and Mikhail became lovers and later husband and wife. GDss Olga didn't approve Mikhail's choice - probably she just didn't like Natalia, and she eventually understood that  her brother's marriage lowered even more the prestige of the Romanovs. Also probably Empress Maria Fedorovna had a strong influence on her daughters' (Olga and Xenia) opinions.