Author Topic: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life  (Read 287690 times)

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Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #255 on: June 04, 2009, 10:00:39 AM »
Hi,

Had Michael accepted the throne in 1917, then would Natalia have been recognized as Empress?  After all, she was a divorced woman, with husband(s) still alive - a sort of forerunner of Wallis Simpson!!!
And, the Romanov's seem to have ostracized her en mass.
How would she have fared?  And, how would she have been addressed?

Larry

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #256 on: June 04, 2009, 10:22:44 AM »
Yes, you are probably right, partially, however, Olga's marital situation was not exactly "acceptable" by most standards either was it ?. Even although she was forced by her mother into a marriage with a real dweasel. If one compares the drama caused by the slightest bad behaviour of any of the Grand Dukes ( banishment, allowances cut off, etc)  her attitude seems a bit hypocritical.  She lived in a " menage a trois",  for years, and the family turned a blind eye.  Many people would raise an eyebrow even today. Xenia was no saint either, was she ?
I think that if Marie Feodoravna disliked Natalia so much, she would never have recieved her, even though it only happened after the Revolution,and once in 1914. So Olga's attitude towards her was strange. But as you say, perhaps she just disliked her so much for some reason, that she denied ever having met her. Natalia was not very complimentary of the Imperial family. That could also be a reason.

I think Olga was a really nice person, who had a very hard life after 1917, but this is the only thing about her that I dislike.  

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #257 on: June 05, 2009, 12:51:58 AM »
Hi,

Had Michael accepted the throne in 1917, then would Natalia have been recognized as Empress?  After all, she was a divorced woman, with husband(s) still alive - a sort of forerunner of Wallis Simpson!!!
And, the Romanov's seem to have ostracized her en mass.
How would she have fared?  And, how would she have been addressed?

Larry

Hi Larry:

There was really no precedent for this situation. The closest situation was Alexander II's marriage to Katia Dolgorukaya. During the time they were married, she continued to be known as Princess Dolgoruky, the same as she was known before marrying the Emperor.

As you know, the Fundamental Law had no issue with divorce and neither did the Orthodox Church.

There is no way I know of to be a morganatic Empress, and this combined with Michael's bitterness as to how Natalia was treated while he was trying to work with his brother and do as Nicholas wished leads me to think that Michael would only have accepted a situation where his wife was an Imperial Majesty.

I think this scenario would only have worked if the "liberals" - those who wanted a constitutional monarchy - had been able to seize and keep power. I still think that even with a style and title equivalent to Alexandra's that Natalia would have had a tough time of it.

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #258 on: June 05, 2009, 09:56:21 AM »
Hi Lisa,

Thanks for the answer.
That's exactly what I thought myself - that Michael would have insisted that Natalia be Empress, with full dignity.  And, his mother and sisters and all the Romanovs would just have to 'bite the bullet'...

A Constitutioal Monarchy would certainly have been "the solution";  and considering that their son died early on in his life, I guess we'd be still left with the Vladimirovichi as monarchs...
Aunt Meichen would have had her way in the end!!!

Larry

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #259 on: June 05, 2009, 01:25:55 PM »
Hi Lisa,

Thanks for the answer.
That's exactly what I thought myself - that Michael would have insisted that Natalia be Empress, with full dignity.  And, his mother and sisters and all the Romanovs would just have to 'bite the bullet'...

A Constitutional Monarchy would certainly have been "the solution";  and considering that their son died early on in his life, I guess we'd be still left with the Vladimirovichi as monarchs...
Aunt Meichen would have had her way in the end!!!

Larry

Perhaps not. If he could have made Natasha an empress, no reason he could not have made his son George a grand duke and tsesarevich.

He could also have agreed to hold the throne as Regent. I believe that this was Nicholas' and his plan after Alexei's birth up to Michael's unsanctioned marriage. That, if Nicholas died before Alexei reached his majority (16 in Romanov terms), that Michael would be Regent until he did. (Also likely promised Nicky that he would look after Alexandra and their daughters.)

Something I've touched on in my two biographical sketches of Michael is how incredibly devoted he was to his nieces and nephews, and later to his stepdaughter Tata and son George. Because of this, and also his personal morality, I believe the main reason he consulted an expert in the Fundamental Law during those few hours he was de facto Emperor is because he would have not taken Alexei's place in the succession without a compelling legal reason or justification.

It's also the best reason I can think for him to not abdicate. How could he abdicate from a position that was not rightfully his?


Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #260 on: June 05, 2009, 09:03:17 PM »
Hi Lisa,

Yes, I see what you are saying and I should have elaborated my response to included Alexei.
But what I was assuming was that Alexei may not have lived a longer life than several other haemophiiacs (20 - 25);  and Michael would have ruled as Regent and/or Emperor, but George died too....
Unless Michael & Natalia had other sons, then Kirill would have been next...

Of course this is all supposition on my part and like you, I really don't dwell on fantasy - but it is sometimes fun to rearrange history....
"What If".......

Larry

RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #261 on: June 21, 2009, 11:25:31 AM »
Another case of "wrong label"...The photo is labeled as "Nicholas Alexandrovich Romanov", but actually he is Mikhail Alexandrovich Romanov:

http://pro.corbis.com/Enlargement/Enlargement.aspx?id=HU042885&caller=search

Offline Ally Kumari

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #262 on: June 22, 2009, 02:33:20 PM »

Offline Ally Kumari

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #263 on: June 22, 2009, 02:35:10 PM »
Found this portrait by Makovski labelled Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovich in childhood


Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #264 on: June 22, 2009, 11:24:27 PM »
Aww. to cute!

Offline Ally Kumari

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #265 on: June 23, 2009, 05:47:10 AM »
Oh yes, he was very handsome from the beggining....

On horse

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #266 on: June 25, 2009, 11:01:40 AM »

Zecharia

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #267 on: July 03, 2009, 11:39:55 PM »
I have always liked that photo of Natasha ever since I saw it. She was pregnant with George, Count Brassov who was born 1910, died 1931, too young in a auto accident. This was Grand Duke Michael's only child. She had another child by a earlier marriage, a daughter. Natasha looks lovely here, although times were not happy for her then. Yes, there does seem to be something special about expectant mothers. But there are not that many photos from back then, which is sad. I have enjoyed seeing these pictures, although I cannot recall any myself that I could post.
Can somebody tell me please, what is happened with Natasha first daughter?

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #268 on: July 04, 2009, 01:45:11 PM »

Can somebody tell me please, what is happened with Natasha first daughter?

Tata Mamontova in 1921, being 18 year old, married (secretly from her mother ) Val Gielgud, then a poor student at Oxford,brotherof famous actor Sir John Gielgud. Natalia was so furouis of Tata's marriage that kicked her out of the house and Tata went to live to her former governess. The couple divorced in 1923 and Tata married secondly Cecil Gray, writer and musical critic, they had a daughter Pauline who in 1970s wrote the book "The Grand Duke Woman". Tata then married 3d time, gave birth to another daughter Alexandra and lived with that last husband all her life. She died in 1969 in England.

Mother and daughter saw each other rarely as Natalia didn't approve Tata's way of life.

Zecharia

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Re: Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovitch, his family and life
« Reply #269 on: July 04, 2009, 07:27:13 PM »

Can somebody tell me please, what is happened with Natasha first daughter?

Tata Mamontova in 1921, being 18 year old, married (secretly from her mother ) Val Gielgud, then a poor student at Oxford,brotherof famous actor Sir John Gielgud. Natalia was so furouis of Tata's marriage that kicked her out of the house and Tata went to live to her former governess. The couple divorced in 1923 and Tata married secondly Cecil Gray, writer and musical critic, they had a daughter Pauline who in 1970s wrote the book "The Grand Duke Woman". Tata then married 3d time, gave birth to another daughter Alexandra and lived with that last husband all her life. She died in 1969 in England.

Mother and daughter saw each other rarely as Natalia didn't approve Tata's way of life.
Thank you very much for your quik answer :)