Author Topic: Edward IV and Elizabeth as a Couple  (Read 27744 times)

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Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Edward IV and Elizabeth as a Couple
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2006, 11:40:41 AM »
Yes, he had his faults, she had hers. But then it was rather common for kings to be unfaithful back in those days.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by romanov_fan »

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Edward IV and Elizabeth as a Couple
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2006, 12:56:11 PM »
Jane Shore was mistress first to Lord Hastings, Edward's great friend, then to Edward himself, then to Elizabeth's son the Marquess of Dorset!  :o She knew which side her bread was buttered!

BTW, he real name was Elizabeth Shore, the 'Jane' has just sprung up over the centuries.
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Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: Edward IV and Elizabeth as a Couple
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2006, 12:58:30 PM »
Quote
BTW, he real name was Elizabeth Shore, the 'Jane' has just sprung up over the centuries.


How does one get Jane from Elizabeth? ???

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Edward IV and Elizabeth as a Couple
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2006, 01:20:23 PM »
I've no idea!
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Edward IV and Elizabeth as a Couple
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2006, 01:24:43 PM »
Elizabeth/Jane Shore was accused of sorcery by Richard III in 1483 and had to do public penance. I think she then married Richard's solicitor, a Mr. Lynham(sp)?
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ilyala

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Re: Edward IV and Elizabeth as a Couple
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2006, 01:48:41 PM »
i'm sure that must have gotten some charges off her back :P

talk about a woman who can take care of herself :D

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Edward IV and Elizabeth as a Couple
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2006, 10:05:18 AM »
Yes that lady sure got around, you can say that much! ;)

Bernardino

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Edward IV marriage
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2006, 04:02:22 PM »
I know Edward IV wasn't a Tudor ... but ... ;)

What was the story behind his marriage, that after all was said not to be lawful (?)

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Edward IV marriage
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2006, 04:41:11 PM »
Basically, Edward married Elizabeth Grey (nee Woodville) in great secret in 1464. I think her mother was the only witness of the marriage. When the news went public, there was much resentment against Elizabeth - she was 5 years Edward's senior, her husband had been a Lancastrian, and she had two sons already. And she was a commoner.  :o

Of course, such resentment was bound to foster rumours. There were rumours the Edward had already been precontracted to Lady Eleanor Butler, so his marriage to Elizabeth was illegal. These rumours were encouraged (or possibly started) by Richard III, to legitimate his own claim to the throne. There's no evidence about it either way.
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Edward IV marriage
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2006, 04:51:48 AM »
Oh what a tangled web we weave....
The marriage between Edward and Elizabeth lead ultimately to the destruction of the House of York IMO. By marrying her and promoting the Woodvilles, Edward succeeded in alienating,among others, one of the most powerful men in England at that time-Warwick. Surely, one of the reasons why Warwick went "over" to the Lancastrian side was because of his loss of power over Edward and the insinuation of the Woodvilles-becoming the King's trusted councillors and the companions of his leisure.
It was Phillip de Commines(sp) who stated that Stillington was the cleric who was aware of Edward's pre contract with Lady Eleanor Butler. My understanding is that pre contract was "the job done"and therefore Elizabeth's marriage to Edward was in fact bigamous, therefore any offspring of this marriage illigitimate. There are rumours that Stillington informed the mentally unstable Clarence about this pre contract (dangerous knowledge) and this is why he was disposed of. :o :o
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Edward IV marriage
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2006, 04:03:28 PM »
Marriage with Elizabeth certainly wasn't a good idea. I mean, look at the pro's and cons.

Pro's
-She was proved fertile.
-She was reputedly beautiful.
-Edward loved her!

Cons
-In the words of (I think) Alison Weir 'instead of a dowry, Elizabeth brought a host of rapacious relatives.'
-The marriage cemented no alliance.
-She was 5 years Edward's senior.
-She was the widow of a Lancastrian.
-She was the product of a 'mesalliance' between the Duchess of Bedford and her husband's steward, Lord Rivers.
-The marriage alienated Warwick.

Doesn't balance out, does it?  :-/
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Bernardino

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Re: Edward IV marriage
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2006, 04:27:37 PM »
It seems that King Edward IV also sought the hand of the Portuguese Infanta Dona Joana in marriage...She was the daughter of King Afonso V and older sister of the tenatious King João II...

She was a cultivated and pious princess (later on proclaimed Saint by Catholic Church), with some talent to rule a country (which she did when her father and son were away fighting Castile) but had no marriage intentions...

She heard negative comments on the English King's personality and on the unfortunate political situation of his Kingdom, which only enforced her will...Her brother insisted almost violently...and some say he made her pass difficult times...but in the end Joana was lucky because news came that Edward had married Elizabeth...

I wonder if the English would have proclaimed illegitimate the offspring of this potential marriage if it had occured after that contract to Eleanor Butler...

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Edward IV marriage
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2006, 04:47:01 PM »
Thanks Bernardino, I didn't  know that! :D I don't think the issue of this marriage would have been declared illegitimate. It would have been a much more acceptable match to the English. Plus, the reason Richard III usurped the throne (one of them anyway) was that he feared the Woodvilles gaining power. He needed have feared this in this scenario.

I believe Edward was also matched with Isabel of Castile, do you know anything about this?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Edward IV marriage
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2006, 02:17:56 AM »
I don't agree, if there was a precontract, there was a precontract. So it doesn't matter who he married, the marriage would have been bigamous.
Warwick was negotiating a match with Bona of Savoy at the time.. another reason why he felt alienated. He was made to look a fool.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Kimberly »
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ilyala

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Re: Edward IV marriage
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2006, 02:26:44 AM »
a precontract is a precontract, true, but some things can be very easily hidden if it's very convenient to do so. not many people knew about it, and it could have been covered up had the marriage not been so disastruous.