Author Topic: One thing I find odd  (Read 109212 times)

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Offline J_Kendrick

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #90 on: October 20, 2006, 09:52:10 PM »

However, the overwhelming circumstantial evidence would suggest to anyone with a modicum of common sense that they were murdered with the rest of their family.  Unless of course Heino Tammet and Anna Anderson really were brother and sister and there has been a massive cover up over the faked deaths of two insignificant children of an ex tsar...some secret society, royalty's version of the Opus Dei, has been pulling the wool over our eyes for the past 80 years! Now that really would be groundbreaking! There is a Romanov bloodline after all! And it lives on....maybe we should make a movie about it.  I'm sure Tom Hanks would be well up for it!

Rachel
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A missing Gand Duchess and a missing Sovereign Heir? 

You describe the missing Romanov teenagers as   "... two insignificant children of an ex Tsar..." ? ???

Insignificant ? ? ? ?

A curious choice of words, to be sure.  How many others here would consider the two missing Romanovs to be insignificant?  If they really were insignificant, why would SEARCH still be spending so much effort looking for them?

.. and what if their missing bodies are not there to be found in Pig's Meadow?

Would you then still be calling them and their dissappearance "insignificant"?



Offline Belochka

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #91 on: October 21, 2006, 12:03:26 AM »
Hey John, why not try this challenging approach.... pay an accredited laboratory of your choosing so that they can attempt a DNA match using the Estonian's remains with that of Mrs Manahan?

Wouldn't those results be fascinating?  ::)  ;D

Margarita



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Offline Belochka

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #92 on: October 21, 2006, 12:06:37 AM »

Why not show a modicum of respect for the hard working individuals who are doing their absolute best in helping to find the remains. It is most unworthy of you to discredit the SEARCH Foundation.

Margarita


Quite right Margarita dear! :) Keep up the good work. I look forward to the day when the hard work and persistance finally pays off & the last two members of this most explary family are laid to rest, in peace, with their loved ones. How lovely to think they would all be together again!! :)

Many thanks for your support Eddieboy_uk !

Margarita
   ;)


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Offline J_Kendrick

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #93 on: October 21, 2006, 01:47:10 AM »
Hey John, why not try this challenging approach.... pay an accredited laboratory of your choosing so that they can attempt a DNA match using the Estonian's remains with that of Mrs Manahan?

Wouldn't those results be fascinating?  ::)  ;D

Margarita



Oooo.. Sarcasm...


Offline J_Kendrick

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #94 on: October 21, 2006, 01:53:38 AM »

Why not show a modicum of respect for the hard working individuals who are doing their absolute best in helping to find the remains. It is most unworthy of you to discredit the SEARCH Foundation.

Margarita


Quite right Margarita dear! :) Keep up the good work. I look forward to the day when the hard work and persistance finally pays off & the last two members of this most explary family are laid to rest, in peace, with their loved ones. How lovely to think they would all be together again!! :)

Many thanks for your support Eddieboy_uk !

Margarita
   ;)

SEARCH needs a great deal more than just spport in its very admirable efforts.

SEARCH needs to find those missing bones, which it is never going to do.... if it never dares to expand its search parameters beyond the confines of Pig's Meadow.

jk 

Offline Belochka

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #95 on: October 21, 2006, 01:56:05 AM »

Why not show a modicum of respect for the hard working individuals who are doing their absolute best in helping to find the remains. It is most unworthy of you to discredit the SEARCH Foundation.

Margarita


Quite right Margarita dear! :) Keep up the good work. I look forward to the day when the hard work and persistance finally pays off & the last two members of this most explary family are laid to rest, in peace, with their loved ones. How lovely to think they would all be together again!! :)

Many thanks for your support Eddieboy_uk !

Margarita
   ;)

SEARCH needs a great deal more than just spport in its very admirable efforts.

SEARCH needs to find those missing bones, which it is never going to do.... if it never dares to expand its search parameters beyond the confines of Pig's Meadow.

jk 

Care to contribute to towards SEARCH's next expedition John?  ;)

Margarita


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

Offline Belochka

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #96 on: October 21, 2006, 01:58:41 AM »
Hey John, why not try this challenging approach.... pay an accredited laboratory of your choosing so that they can attempt a DNA match using the Estonian's remains with that of Mrs Manahan?

Wouldn't those results be fascinating?  ::)  ;D

Margarita



Oooo.. Sarcasm...



Have you accepted the challenge?

Margarita
  ;D


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Offline Ra-Ra-Rasputin

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #97 on: October 21, 2006, 04:53:18 AM »
Yes, Mr Kendrick, I do think they are insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Two children of an ex Tsar, note the ex, are not and were not that important to warrant the cover up you suggest.

SEARCH continues to look for them because whether they are insignificant in the grand scheme of things or not, depending on how attached you are to the Romanovs, they are still two missing children and their bodies deserve to be found and put to rest beside their family.  Also, a lot of people want to put the whole survivor theory to rest once and for all, and in finding the final two bodies, this would be achieved.

Alexei and his sister would never have been in a position to reascend the non existant throne of Russia.  This is why they are insignificant.  There was no fortune for them to inherit.  This is why they are insignificant.  The majority of their relatives died penniless and in obscurity.  That is why they are insignificant.

What you people don't seem to understand is that the vast majority of the world KNOWS NOTHING about the Romanovs and COULDN'T CARE LESS.  Just because we have an interest in them, it doesn't mean everyone else does.  The two missing bodies, compared to what else has gone on in the world in the last century, is really not that important an issue.  So I fail to see why you think there would have been a big cover up over the deaths of two children who didn't have a hope in hell of changing the course of history anyway. 

Rachel
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'History teaches that history teaches us nothing' ~ Hegel

Offline Bev

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #98 on: October 21, 2006, 10:48:31 AM »
RRRasp. is absolutely correct.  If the two children had turned up a year after the murder, it would not have changed Russian history one iota, except to add an interesting footnote to the historical record.  One fragile, hemophiliac boy who could not walk, from a very unpopular and quite frankly hated family, with no political or financial fortune could not have stemmed the tide of the revolution. 

There is no reason whatsoever for anyone today to coverup or obscure the facts in this case.  No historian, politician or scientist would have any motive whatsoever to risk his professional reputation to tamper with evidence.

There is a very simple solution to solving Kendrick's problem - ask for the samples to be sent to another lab and have them tested. There is no reason not to do this.  If SEARCH folded its tents today, it would not prove that the children survived, it would prove that SEARCH stopped searching.  Just because they stopped searching for Jimmy Hoffa, it doesn't prove that Jimmy Hoffa is alive.  I wonder why Kendrick is obsessively pursuing the ridiculous claims of some Estonian con artist, in the face of all the known facts and evidence, but if he wants to spend his capital on the project, it doesn't matter to me or anyone else - and it shouldn't matter to Kendrick if anyone else wants to spend time and money on his/her own project.

Offline Elisabeth

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #99 on: October 21, 2006, 11:21:23 AM »
Lori, with all due respect, what you are repeating is all (recent) legend and hearsay. As far as professional (that is, academic) historians can gather, there were NO contemporary rumors that two bodies were missing from Pig's Meadow. Yurovsky makes NO special attempt in any of his numerous accounts of the murder and burial of the IF to "explain" the apparent "absence" of two missing bodies. On the contrary, in one account he even jacks up the death toll by adding a twelfth victim to the number killed in the Ipatiev House. If he was so concerned about missing bodies, why add a third "missing" body to the mix?

Moreover, if there was some contemporary rumor that two bodies were missing, why didn't Anna Anderson or any of her supporters avail themselves of it? Why don't any contemporary Soviet documents address themselves to this issue? Why was Yurovsky allowed to die in his own bed? Why, why, why - the questions multiply the longer you look at this issue.

The fact of the matter is, there were NO contemporary rumors amongst the Bolsheviks, the peasants, or anywhere else that two bodies had gone missing, because two bodies had NOT gone missing. All the rumors to this effect are very, very recent and can largely be traced to conspiracy theorists trying to prove that Anastasia somehow survived the slaughter in the Ipatiev House.

P.S. Well, that's decidedly odd. The post I thought I was addressing has suddenly disappeared. Maybe I'm in the wrong thread? Or on the wrong page? But I honestly can't find anywhere the post from Lori that I responded to! My apologies, especially to Lori!
« Last Edit: October 21, 2006, 11:44:05 AM by Elisabeth »
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Offline Tania+

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #100 on: October 21, 2006, 11:46:47 AM »
The IF were hated by those who were communists, and those who did not believe then as now, in the Russian Imperial rule, but that did not make it all of Russia. Yes, these were, and still remain people who hated the family, not necessarily the children.

For these above people the IF were deemed not worthy, but for a goodly amount of millions of people, they were also revered and loved, and judging by the amount of peoples who have dropped by to view this AP forum, they are still certainly remembered, and loved by many today. As well today, in the new Russian Federation, their names, their graves, and their persons are again being addressed, and revered. So, again it matters from whose perspective that one gains understanding. They have already paid a high price that they were slaughtered, and need not to have added insults thrown on them in death. You cannot say the world has forgot them, quite the contrary, and they are not at all insignificant, not at all !

For those on this forum who do not care for them, that is certainly your choice, but for those of us who don't, you cannot speak for all the forum, but only of how you independently feel, and neither can you make a blanket statement of those in the world outside this AP Forum.

There are many of in the past, and present who have addressed them not because of their royalty, but because of how they addressed their lives, and were able to transend any human issues personally of harboring hate, especially to those who were their persecutors. They lived their lives in faith to the very end, and in this regard for many in the free world, and for those in Russia as well, their lives have more than 100% significance and always will !

Tatiana+
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Offline Elisabeth

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #101 on: October 21, 2006, 11:55:17 AM »
Of course, uvazhaemaia Tania, the imperial children had an ultimate value as human beings. What Rachel and Bev are saying is something completely different. All they are arguing is that the imperial children, Alexei and Anastasia, were no longer of any value as political players in the Russia of 1918. Alexei was an invalid who could barely stand, let alone walk, in his last days on this earth. Anastasia was the youngest daughter of the former tsar, moreover a girl and as such disqualified by imperial law from any claim to the (by now nonexistent) throne. Neither one counted in the larger political scheme of things. Even the Whites who were rapidly approaching Ekaterinburg in early July 1918 did not contemplate restoring the monarchy. So the Bolsheviks actually had very little to lose, at least politically speaking, by killing Nicholas and his entire immediate family.
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Offline Tania+

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #102 on: October 21, 2006, 12:09:58 PM »
Thank you Elizabeth for your kind response. When one explains it in the language as you so patiently and are considerate to offer your words, then it is well taken and understood in that perspective. I have already encountered on the forum wherein a person expressed that they were 'worthless', and when I read what was expressed from both of these young ladies, I decidedly moved to make statement to the contrary, if only to allow understanding to those readers who are not yet old enough to discern to full content, the political intrigues that we as adults have come to understand, in that of the old communist regiemes.

One must always pay full connect, that there are many children who come to these threads, and in all fairness, they deserve to know that we still remain with the ability to show balance in that of where countries were hijacked and suffered irreprable damage, as well that full freedoms have not yet been addressed to date. So, these are the primary reasons I think it is of benefit to always have a balanced offering from readers, and AP members. Hate must not lead, nor be the desired outcome, for that outcome leaves no one with any continuance of even thought.

Thank you again for your taking time to respond with your graciousness.

Tatiana+
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David_Pritchard

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #103 on: October 21, 2006, 01:41:08 PM »
One thing I find odd

If you were to think about it, it is truely amazing that there is anything left that one could find odd on this forum, questions and members that is.

Offline Bev

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #104 on: October 21, 2006, 02:23:35 PM »
I've had enough of the pious hectoring, Tania.