Author Topic: One thing I find odd  (Read 109220 times)

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Offline Tsarfan

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #345 on: November 03, 2006, 05:07:26 AM »

It's only a telegram!

How will you try to explain away the fact that the Palace of King Carl Gustav in Sweden had done exactly the same thing... sending a thank you card to the very same person -- addressed once again to "Alexei Nicolaievich" -- three years later?


Yes, it is only a telegram.  Isn't that the very point, though?  Are you telling us that the Windsors recognized Tammet as the son of Nicholas II, yet the Tammet family has no record of any other contact from the British royal family whatsoever?  Over all the years, that single, generic, one-sentence telegram was the only written correspondence that ever passed from the Windsors to their Romanov cousins?

And how will I "explain away" the great mystery that "the Palace of King Carl Gustav" did exactly the same thing?  Why, by the simplest explanation of all.  Both Buckingham Palace and the Swedish palace received thousands of congratulatory telegrams for these royal weddings.  Their secretariats set up automated mailing lists by copying the addresses on the incoming telegrams.  After the weddings, a generic response was matched to this mailing list and the thousands of acknowledgements were sent out.  It's the universal routine in every public relations operation, be it in industry, politics, or statecraft. 

There are moments when I am appalled at just how stupid and gullible you think people on this site are.  But then I remember that your mission is to generate buzz for a story that is fighting an uphill battle with facts and logic, so I guess your hands are kind of tied.



You are quite right to note that the scientists and their bosses who had done the Anderson comparison tests at the FSS in Britain in 1994 are also among the very same people who are still withholding the Tammet result to this day. 

Curious, isn't it? :-)


Curious?  Not in the least . . . unless you're going out of your way to find a consipiracy answer to a question that has a more logical and more obvious answer.

Anna Anderson was a story with a world-wide following.  Books had been written and movies made about her story.  The results of the Anna Anderson tests were awaited by the international press . . . and those results were duly released.

But who, other than the Tammet family and you, was following the Heino Alexei Tammet-Romanov story?  If his DNA matched, the story would have broken like a thunder clap over the world's press wires.  If it didn't, there was no story of any interest.  And, if it didn't match, why announce to the press that the labs had also looked at the DNA of a virtually unknown claimant?  It would just invite other con artists or deluded individuals to come out of the woodwork to clamor to have their samples tested.

It wouldn't matter that they knew the DNA wouldn't match.  Part of this type of con game is first to generate as much press and other buzz as possible by any means possible.  Then, once the story gets traction, improvise the necessary details as events unfold.  This is why there is almost always a conspiracy theory linked to these ruses.  Sooner or later, logic and hard facts will run the claimant into a dead end.  A conspiracy theory -- replete with dark dealings by mysterious parties with murky motives -- is the indispensible way around this roadblock.

Anna Anderson's DNA didn't match?  No problem.  The DNA sample was switched at the hospital.

Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna refuted her claim to be Anastasia?  No problem.  There was a secret Romanov fortune she was protecting.

Heino Tammet's DNA didn't match?  No problem.  The results are being withheld from the world by scientists who are muzzled by some mysterious machinations of British dynastic politics.

No such motive for the Windsors to hide the results is apparent?  No problem.  That's what conspiracy theories are for.

Beautiful, isn't it?



Offline Belochka

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #346 on: November 03, 2006, 05:11:15 AM »
In a hale of gunfire, stabbings, acid, fire. Oh sure he survived all of that. Point blank shot to the head, really folks, if that’s the case then we can say he was super man, it didn’t happen. As much as I would like to say one of them did survive, none of them did. Telegram or no telegram. I find hard to believe that anyone who was standing in that room survived the slaughter.

Alexei had lost his ability to walk ... which is yet another reason why he was unable to "flee" the scene.

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Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #347 on: November 03, 2006, 07:05:03 AM »
Mr. Kendrick,

This is a tease, isn't it? You are basing an identification upon the address inscribed on a telegram sent en masse from either Stockholm or Buckingham Palace, upon on occasion designed to elicit mass responses? And since your candidate didn't have hemophilia, Alexei therefore didn't have it? And all of this is important because if you can somehow prove it --- good luck with that, by the way, since if the reation on this thread is any indication, it won't be easy --- his descendant  becomes the rightful Tsar of all the Russias? A position which no longer exists, but what the hey, we can probably count on Putin to step aside in the face of such overwhelming evidence. Maria Vladimirovna and Georgiy will just have to lump it.

Come on, Mr. Kendrick. It's a tease.

Simon

By the way, if I get a letter addressed to me as the Grand Duke Simon, I expect you to press my claims with equal fervor. No teeth, though. I need them.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 07:07:02 AM by Louis_Charles »
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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #348 on: November 03, 2006, 07:49:49 AM »

And, having an undescended testicle is a very common occurence.  

Yes, sort of like Anna Anderson's bunions  ;).


Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #349 on: November 03, 2006, 12:21:22 PM »
This is a warning from your moderator AKA The Girl Who Lost At Rock, Paper, Sissors: I expect you all to maintain proper decorum, especially while I am at work and not able to quickly remove offensivee posts. You are all welcome to debate ideas with one another, agree and disagree, present evidence, uncover flaws in one another's logic, and in general, have a great time. You are not welcome to personalize these arguments to the point where others are offended. Be civil. Be, if you can, polite. Avoid name calling and put downs.

As someone just said to me, it appears John Kendrick can both take it and dish it out. You need not agree with Mr. Kendrick's ideas, but I have not had one complaint about his behavior from which you may wish to learn something. Unlike some of you... Enough said, no more misbehavior on the Survivor Board!

Offline skirt

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #350 on: November 03, 2006, 02:22:17 PM »
Well said LisaDavidson.
*claps and cheers*

For the sake of arguement- would either side (red or white, Romanov sympathisers etc) have a purpose for keeping Alexei alive?
bargaining tool? Ransom?
Is that a stretch?
(before the lynching begins) Not that I'm saying he survived the massacre..
Just wondering if there would be a purpose for him not being in the cellar / keeping him alive...

Offline J_Kendrick

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #351 on: November 03, 2006, 02:36:04 PM »
Mr. Kendrick,

This is a tease, isn't it? You are basing an identification upon the address inscribed on a telegram sent en masse from either Stockholm or Buckingham Palace, upon on occasion designed to elicit mass responses? And since your candidate didn't have hemophilia, Alexei therefore didn't have it? And all of this is important because if you can somehow prove it --- good luck with that, by the way, since if the reation on this thread is any indication, it won't be easy --- his descendant  becomes the rightful Tsar of all the Russias? A position which no longer exists, but what the hey, we can probably count on Putin to step aside in the face of such overwhelming evidence. Maria Vladimirovna and Georgiy will just have to lump it.

Come on, Mr. Kendrick. It's a tease.

Simon



Oh, I assure you...

The facts of this case and the plethora of supporting evidence that it contains are most definitely *not* a tease!!

The evidence is all perfectly legitimate and documented.  I am only presenting that evidence in accordance with my duties as a journalist.  How you may choose to interpret that same evidence is entirely of your own doing.

In their consistently failed attempts to shoot down that same evidence, many of the posters on this board have continually attempted to read into my posts -- incorrectly, I might add -- that my presentation of that same evidence might somehow also represent my own personal beliefs about this case.

My duties as journalist are to report the details of the case, to present the supporting evidence as accurately as possible, and to ensure that the details of that evidence are properly understood.  In fact, I have never actually said what my "beliefs" are about this case.  Nor would I.

Again....

How you may choose to interpret the evidence that I have presented on this board is entirely of your own doing.  You cannot deflect what you see in that same evidence onto someone else's shoulders... just because you may not like what that evidence represents.

No matter how many times you keep doing it, shooting the messenger is not going to make this case or its evidence ever go away.

Until that day comes when the scientists who still hold those Tammet DNA samples finally tell us all their answer.... 

Like it or not, you're stuck with it !!

jk 
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 02:45:50 PM by J_Kendrick »

Offline Tsarfan

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #352 on: November 03, 2006, 03:41:58 PM »

No matter how many times you keep doing it, shooting the messenger is not going to make this case or its evidence ever go away.


Well, people are still arguing about whether Louis XVII survived.  So perhaps you're right that this case will never go away.  And you may be vindicated.  I mean, it took over two centuries, but the movie Pirates of the Caribbean has finally proven to kids everywhere that Blackbeard still walks this earth.

The real difficulty of this case is in keeping it alive, not in shooting it down.  The evidence you rely upon to hold this bulletproof case together is:

  • Alexei survived the massacre in the Ipatiev house.
  • Yurovsky was lying about killing Alexei and burning and burying his body separately, although the account holds up in other particulars.
  • Alexei did not have hemophilia.  All the doctors of the time who diagnosed him and the other male hemophiliacs in Victoria's lineage got it wrong.  You, a hundred years later and with no body to examine, have correctly determined that he did not have hemophilia.  Spala was all about really bad indigestion or something.
  • The House of  Windsor recognizes Tammet's claim, as evidenced by the fact -- and only by this fact -- that Buckingham Palace sent a one-line generic thank-you telegram to the title and address from which a congratulatory telegram had been sent.
  • Ditto for the Swedish royal house.
  • Even though the Windsors acknowledged Tammet in writing (that enormously significant thank-you telegram), they are inexplicably hell-bent against releasing the DNA results that prove the very claim they have already acknowledged in writing.
  • A group of forensic scientists from both Russia and the U.S. are complicit in this British plot to keep the results secret.
  • Alexei had an undescended testicle.  Heino had an undescended testicle.  They are, therefore, the same person.  Hemopathic evidence is not compelling.  Testicular evidence is.


And, by the way . . . you say you have stated no personal beliefs about any of this evidence.  You are just neutrally reporting all the facts.  But didn't you earlier make the categorical statement that Alexei did not have hemophilia?  So set us straight.  Did Alexei have hemophilia or didn't he?  And, if not, what was the correct diagnosis?

Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #353 on: November 03, 2006, 03:43:31 PM »
Evidence? What evidence? The telegram?
Teeth you claim that the British have? Did Tammet's estate get a receipt, by the way? Let me guess. . . a telegram "signed" by the Duke of Edinburgh?

Oh, Mr. Kendrick. You jest. You tease.

Might I inquire as to where you did your journalism degree? And before you accuse me of shooting the messenger, let's face it --- it is a legitimate question. Credentials might help credibility. And credibility needs all the help it can get here.

The Grand Duke Simon
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Offline Annie

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #354 on: November 03, 2006, 04:54:46 PM »
I was in a used bookstore today and found a book called "The Escape of Alexei" which was in favor of the claimant Vasilli Filatov. The guy looked nothing like him. I did not have time to look through the book, but it was $7. Is it worth it, just for the novelty? If anyone has read it, how did he claim Alexei escaped?

Offline Tsarfan

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #355 on: November 03, 2006, 06:05:03 PM »

I was in a used bookstore today and found a book called "The Escape of Alexei" which was in favor of the claimant Vasilli Filatov . . . . it was $7.  Is it worth it, just for the novelty?  If anyone has read it, how did he claim Alexei escaped?


Tsar Vasily was rescued by two sympathetic executioners.

Vasily has my vote.  His claims beat Heino's right and left.  And he's even got a book -- a hardback, no less -- to prove it.

Vasily had scars in all the right places.  Computerized facial matching proves he was Alexei.  Photographic comparisons with Alexei are a dead ringer.  (You must have been holding the book the wrong way when looking at the pictures, Annie, dear.)  The handwriting matches.  And those eyes . . . there's just no doubt that's Alexei staring back from those dark, haunted pits.

Better yet, Vasily was found in Mother Russia and knew how to say "tsesarevich".  No need to account for a trek across the Bering Strait or North Atlantic, either.

The hemophilia?  No problemo.  Tsar Vasily was taken to a remote peasant village where his wounds were cured with herbal remedies and a diet of raw meat.  (Finally!  The answer to how Rasputin did it.)

Unfortunately, Vasily's DNA has been inexplicably "withheld" . . . but isn't that always the way when Alexei steps forward?

The only uncertainty is the undescended testicle.  Nobody got a gander at those testicles, dammit!

______________

Is the book worth $7, Annie?  You might want to read Orlando Figes' review of it first.  You'd definitely be buying it only for the novelty value.

Offline Belochka

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #356 on: November 03, 2006, 11:05:26 PM »

I was in a used bookstore today and found a book called "The Escape of Alexei" which was in favor of the claimant Vasilli Filatov . . . . it was $7.  Is it worth it, just for the novelty?  If anyone has read it, how did he claim Alexei escaped?


Tsar Vasily was rescued by two sympathetic executioners.

Vasily has my vote.  His claims beat Heino's right and left.  And he's even got a book -- a hardback, no less -- to prove it.

Vasily had scars in all the right places.  Computerized facial matching proves he was Alexei.  Photographic comparisons with Alexei are a dead ringer.  (You must have been holding the book the wrong way when looking at the pictures, Annie, dear.)  The handwriting matches.  And those eyes . . . there's just no doubt that's Alexei staring back from those dark, haunted pits.

Better yet, Vasily was found in Mother Russia and knew how to say "tsesarevich".  No need to account for a trek across the Bering Strait or North Atlantic, either.

The hemophilia?  No problemo.  Tsar Vasily was taken to a remote peasant village where his wounds were cured with herbal remedies and a diet of raw meat.  (Finally!  The answer to how Rasputin did it.)

Unfortunately, Vasily's DNA has been inexplicably "withheld" . . . but isn't that always the way when Alexei steps forward?

The only uncertainty is the undescended testicle.  Nobody got a gander at those testicles, dammit!

Tammet must have consummed a lot of reindeer meat to cure his hemophilia!  ;)

Why did Tammet not sue Filatov for false impersonation? Very odd indeed.

Margarita 
  ;D
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 11:16:50 PM by Belochka »


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Offline Belochka

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #357 on: November 03, 2006, 11:27:49 PM »

My duties as journalist are to report the details of the case, to present the supporting evidence as accurately as possible, and to ensure that the details of that evidence are properly understood.  In fact, I have never actually said what my "beliefs" are about this case.  Nor would I.
jk 

Not one single journalist/author that I have come across who persists with such a story for several years does not fail to demonstrate empathy towards the subject matter. Otherwise why waste your time?

Margarita
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 11:29:29 PM by Belochka »


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Offline Tsarfan

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #358 on: November 03, 2006, 11:48:39 PM »

I am only presenting that evidence in accordance with my duties as a journalist.  How you may choose to interpret that same evidence is entirely of your own doing.


With all due respect, Mr. Kendrick, you are being incredibly disingenuous in saying you do nothing but present evidence and leave the interpretation to your readers.

Regarding the telegram, for instance.  If you were truly adhering strictly to your "duties as a journalist", you would report that the Tammets received a telegram with a Buckingham Palace date stamp of November 15, 1973.  You would report the contents of the telegram.  You might report how it was addressed, if you deemed that relevant.

Instead, you have insisted that the telegram signified a Windsor recognition of Tammet as Alexei Romanov.  You failed to disclose the contents until we insisted that you do so.  When those contents appeared to some of us to indicate that Princess Anne did not recognize Tammet's claim, you then forcefully insisted that the contents were not relevant to anything -- only the address was.

This goes far beyond the neutral presentation of all evidence available to you.  You were trying to select which part of the evidence we saw.  You were telling us what part of that evidence was relevant and what part was not.  And you were telling us what conclusion should be drawn from that evidence.

I don't know what to make of your claim to be a neutral journalist who reports all the evidence without bias.  If I give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you are not being dishonest, the only alternative that leaves is that you are capable of incredible self-delusion.  Perhaps that is the better explanation, because it also encompasses your ability to believe that Tammet was Alexei Romanov.

Offline J_Kendrick

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #359 on: November 04, 2006, 02:24:54 AM »

I am only presenting that evidence in accordance with my duties as a journalist.  How you may choose to interpret that same evidence is entirely of your own doing.


With all due respect, Mr. Kendrick, you are being incredibly disingenuous in saying you do nothing but present evidence and leave the interpretation to your readers.

Regarding the telegram, for instance.  If you were truly adhering strictly to your "duties as a journalist", you would report that the Tammets received a telegram with a Buckingham Palace date stamp of November 15, 1973.  You would report the contents of the telegram.  You might report how it was addressed, if you deemed that relevant.

Instead, you have insisted that the telegram signified a Windsor recognition of Tammet as Alexei Romanov. 


I have only told you that Buckingham Palace had sent Tammet a thank you telegram.. which it did... and that the Palace had addressed that same telegram with the name and title of "Alexei Nicolaievich"... which it had also done.  This is entirely factual documented evidence.

I have only ever reported the details of that evidence.  I have never said, as you have now claimed, that those same facts had "signfied a Windsor recognition". 

You have all managed to put that particular little twist on my words all by yourselves... without any help from me.

Quote


You failed to disclose the contents until we insisted that you do so.


It's a telegram of thanks.  It says thank you.  What more do you want it to say?

Quote

When those contents appeared to some of us to indicate that Princess Anne did not
 recognize Tammet's claim, you then forcefully insisted that the contents were not
relevant to anything -- only the address was.


Yes... Because no matter much you may choose to argue against this point...

The fact that a telegram sent by the Palace is actually addressed to "Alexei Nicolaievich"... 55 years after his disappearance... is the key issue that the Palace still needs to explain -- not what the telegram says.

As I have said, I am only presenting the evidence.  How you may choose to interpret the presentation of that same evidence is entirely of your own doing.

jk
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 02:50:31 AM by J_Kendrick »