Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life

[bookworm]

Mr. King, one question for you. Do you know if the geneological research in Germany or Poland showed whether Franziska and Felix Schanzkowski were half-siblings or full-siblings of Karl Maucher's grandmother?
I wish I could read the relevant articles/books on the topic, but my German consists of a sentence "Wo is Monika?" that I learned in high school German.

[Annie]

In this case, though, I think you have to realize that everything written about either FS or AA has some agenda behind it.  

In short, nothing yet published has been neutral.

Yes, it sure looks that way.

If the DNA tests are so unreliable, does this mean there is a chance that my nephew is paying child support on a daughter that is not his? He denied the child but the DNA proved he was the father and the court is making him pay. The test was done in 1998. I am serious, should he have the tests redone or something?

I suppose at some point, yes, the information may be published, but we're talking about mountains of birth certificates, church registries, oral histories written down, police files, years of detailed hospital records, etc., that I'm afraid wouldn't make for a very interesting or exciting book except for those terribly interested in this question.

Greg King

True it would have very limited appeal. Still I can't see how we can ever get to the bottom of the truth on the AA mystery without thoroughly examining the FS story.  But if you or anyone else ever do find anything new please let us know!

[LisaDavidson]

Annie: If your nephew has a strong reason for denying paternity (such as never having slept with the mother or having another candidate who did) and is paying substantial support, it is probably cost effective for him to have another paternity test run. No offense to him, but my experience is alot of men deny paternity and continue to even after testing and often without a strong reason.

Greg: I don't think it's fair to say that everything published about AA "has an agenda to it". I think that's unfair to the many writers - yourself included - who try to present the information they have as impartially as they can. It's reasonable to me that writers develop opinions about their material - but it's quite a jump from having an opinion to having an agenda.

[Greg_King]

Greg: I don't think it's fair to say that everything published about AA "has an agenda to it". I think that's unfair to the many writers - yourself included - who try to present the information they have as impartially as they can. It's reasonable to me that writers develop opinions about their material - but it's quite a jump from having an opinion to having an agenda.

Lisa-

Perhaps I should have said opinion rather than agenda, but opinion in this case doesn't really convey the depth of conviction one sees in this case, and that was more or less what I was trying to get at.  I'm sure there are probably a few people who have indeed written from a purely impartial position, but I don't think that includes any major publications on the issue in the last 20 years.

Greg King

[bookworm]

Research thus far has failed to uncover any registration of Gertrude's birth. This makes her the only one in a family of seven children not to be thus accounted for.  Further research continues...

Penny

That's interesting. I would think the identity of her mother would be a fairly easy thing to prove if the researchers dig hard enough, at least anecdotally.  

[Annie]

A lot of people's births were not registered, for whatever reason. In the US birth certificates were not required in most places until 1913. My grandfather claimed he was born on the fourth of July (1884) but county records showed his birth was reported on July 7. He explained that by saying his father did not get into town for 3 days. I have an aunt born in 1924 who was the only one of her 12 siblings not to have a birth certificate. She was not able to get her Social Security payments until she went back to the county of her birth and got her elderly aunt to swear she remembered her being born, though at the last minute she wouldn't swear on the Bible, saying 'well Bertha had so many kids, I'm not sure' But somehow she got the proof of her birth anyway. But on the subject of Gertrude, while there may be no record of her birth, the fact that Karl's DNA matched the sample would seem to prove that Gertrude and FS were full sisters. I would also like to add to all the DNA doubters that I may have had my doubts more if the sample had matched neither Karl nor Phillip.

[Greg_King]

A lot of people's births were not registered, for whatever reason. In the US birth certificates were not required in most places until 1913. My grandfather claimed he was born on the fourth of July (1884) but county records showed his birth was reported on July 7. He explained that by saying his father did not get into town for 3 days. I have an aunt born in 1924 who was the only one of her 12 siblings not to have a birth certificate. She was not able to get her Social Security payments until she went back to the county of her birth and got her elderly aunt to swear she remembered her being born, though at the last minute she wouldn't swear on the Bible, saying 'well Bertha had so many kids, I'm not sure' But somehow she got the proof of her birth anyway. But on the subject of Gertrude, while there may be no record of her birth, the fact that Karl's DNA matched the sample would seem to prove that Gertrude and FS were full sisters. I would also like to add to all the DNA doubters that I may have had my doubts more if the sample had matched neither Karl nor Phillip.

The point is-full documentation exists for the other children-all of their births were registered; Gertrude's is the only child in the family who was not-it has nothing to do with common practice, as such, especially as she was neither the oldest or youngest child, and thus the only one not represented with documentation.

As to the mtDNA match with Maucher, I direct you to my post under the DNA thread, which points out that at least 10% of unrelated humans are now believed to share identical mtDNA profiles.

Greg King

[Annie]

It's like my aunt who did not have any birth certificate but her 12 brothers and sisters did, this being the US in the 1920's-30's. It didn't make her any less family.

On the DNA, while 10% of unrelated people may share DNA, if no DNA is shared (such as with AA and Prince Phillip) I don't see how there's much chance they're related. So while she may not have been FS, doesn't look like she was AN either.

[Alexa]

It's like my aunt who did not have any birth certificate but her 12 brothers and sisters did, this being the US in the 1920's-30's. It didn't make her any less family.

I think that type of stuff was more common than what one thinks.  My dad, the 4th of 6 children, didn't realize he didn't have a birth certificate until he applied to move to the US.  As such, he didn't have a birth certificate issued until he was over 30 years old.  His other siblings all had birth certificates though.

Alexa

[stepan]

Research thus far has failed to uncover any registration of Gertrude's birth. This makes her the only one in a family of seven children not to be thus accounted for.  Further research continues...

Penny

But even if the birth certificate of Gertrude Schanzkowska is missing I can´t  imagine it´s difficult to establish the fact if  Franziska and Felix had a different mother than the other children or not?  Greg writes that there´s been much research into the family in Germany and Poland.  I  wonfer if most of this was done in connection with the trials 1958-67?   If such research was done in recent years I think it´s strange if nothing has been published.  I also wonder if Greg and Penny know of any interviews given by members of the schanzkowski family in the german press?  Thanks for sharing your great knowledge!

[stepan]

Thanks Penny for the reply!  I still wonder very much about the Schanzkowskis.  It´s an intriguing story and I think there is much more to be discovered about them.  I think anything is possible concerning Anna Anderson and her possible connection with them. But as always I think it´s better to have an open mind.

[Maria_Romanov_fan]

Wait a minute people. Wouldn't friends/family ect know that FS was missing? Did she even have anybody? And where did she even get the idea that she was Anastasia N.? Was this her plan, I'm guessing it was. Then who fed her all that info(if she was a fake)? A little help please!

[Annie]

There is a LOT on this in the threads here, it's all been gone through, fought over, etc.

Sigh. Let me see where to start to summarize. At this point I'm not even sure if her parents were alive at the time due to confliciting stories. She was reported missing in 1920. Recent findings claim her family thought she was killed by a serial killer because there was one in the area, but no evidence was found. Then her name came up years later during the AA trial after a private eye hired by GD Hesse (Alexandra's brother) broke the case that the "Anastasia" claimant from the asylum was the missing Polish factory worker. There was and still is much fighting over this, but the 1994 DNA results show it's very likely she was related to FS's great nephew (and not at all to the royals.)

I guess her family wasn't all that close to her and didn't look too hard.

The story goes that the siblings first recognized her then denied her after talking to her. Some say this means she wasn't their sister. Others, like me, believe they denied her to avoid financial responisibility for her and not to expose her and ruin her 'career' as "Anastasia." There are letters and comments by the family later that back this up. So that satisfies me. I could totally see my siblings denying me if they thought I was going to be financial burden to them. There is also a letter from her sister Gertrude's lawyer years later telling her she no longer had to worry about having lied when she said she wasn't her sister, the time had expired and she couldn't be prosecuted. Apparently she'd spent years worrying about it.

I have no doubt at all that AA was FS.

[Maria_Romanov_fan]

Thanks Annie. It all seems logical to me, but who fed her that information? Did she bribe or convince an ex-palace employee to tell her? That's my theory...

[Alice]

Wait a minute people. Wouldn't friends/family ect know that FS was missing? Did she even have anybody? And where did she even get the idea that she was Anastasia N.? Was this her plan, I'm guessing it was. Then who fed her all that info(if she was a fake)? A little help please!

Welcome! DO take care opening the can of worms (this forum!)  

As for who gave her information, Annie (if I'm not mistaken) and I have theorised that the person was Gleb Botkin. We just don't have any proof.