Ermakov and the Grand Duchesses

[Sarushka]

[

 Anastasia still had long hair down her back. She wasn't more than seventeen, maybe younger.

If I recall I believe the girl's hair was only to their shoulder's by the night of the 16th.

Azrael

I believe you're right. Also, the girls began wearing their hair *up* by age 16.

[Elisabeth]

Many, many thanks to Sarushka for providing me with a copy of this section of Seven League Boots. After reading it I can honestly say that Ermakov is not a reliable source. We know he regularly visited the Ipatiev House (although he was not stationed there) and we also know he was one of the participants in the murders (because other participants like Yurovsky said so) but his account as given to Halliburton is riddled with inaccuracies and outright lies. My impression is that he was not only an alcoholic with memory problems, but also a liar and a braggart. In many places he seems to be deliberately deceiving Halliburton, for example, when he claims that all the bodies were burned and their ashes scattered to the winds. Obviously the Bolsheviks had been told to keep the location of the mass grave in Pig's Meadow a secret, at least from Westerners. In other places he seems to be just showing off, as when he asserts that there were only three executioners on the night of the murders, including (of course) himself, and that the "Hungarians" (i.e. the Letts) were only there to offer assistance.  

[Georgiy]

Absolutely he was a liar, but parts of his story about the Grand Duchesses ring true. Also i think if there had been anything untoward with Maria, he would have mentioned it. As for Anastasia - who knows, maybe she didn't really care about her hair by that stage - that is I don't think it would have been important for it to be either up or down.

[AGRBear]

Again, thanks  Sarushka for the copy of Halliburton's story about Ermakov.

Yes,  Ermakov's story wove the truth around the fabricated lies.  

One must remember that Ermakov was not unusual.  His Bolshevik/communist pals were becoming experts in this method so it is nearly impossible to divide the truth from the fabrication.

Why fabricate the truth?  It wasn't just to boster Ermakov's position in the execution, it was carefully orchestrated by the communists for a person like Hailburton whom they knew would write the story and that it would be read in newspapers/books throughout the world.

One of the things the Bolsheviks/communist did so effiiciently was: (1)  Get the story out first because it's the first story which every hears is what the majority remembers; and, (2) Tell the story as many times as you can and in time the story seems to take up a life of it's own and appear to be the truth.

This is very important to understand when dealing with any of the history of Russia which was written by the revolutionaries before the Revolution and just as true after the Bolsheviks/communist had the power in their hands.

I do not mean  these Bolsheviks/communists were the only victorious people who accomplished this task.  Napoleon was an expert at twisting the facts.  And,  he made battles sound like minor shirimishes and all most of them did was step over someones fallen bayonet.  He changed the numbers of how many soldiers he has lost.....  The list for Napoleon is huge, as it is for many early upsurpers of countries, states, cities, towns and villages.

Today,  I think the younger generation isn't as aware of these historical fables since we all have this almost instant reporting on today's events which occur around the world.  Ans with these events there are thousands of different views of the same events.  But before computers, before television, before radios, before telephones which were connected to everywhere,  it was easier to fool the public.

And,  fool the public the Bolshevik/communists did and they were very very good at itfrom 1917 to the time the wall fall in the 1980s.

AGRBear

[Sarushka]

One of the things the Bolsheviks/communist did so effiiciently was: (1)  Get the story out first because it's the first story which every hears is what the majority remembers;

If they wanted to be first, they sure took their time about it -- Halliburton's book wasn't published until 1935.

[Alixz]

I just read somewhere (Kurth's TSAR?) that the story that Haliburton wrote was especially fabricated for him.

It may have been published almost 20 years after the murders, but it seems to have been invented and Haliburton was set up.

[AGRBear]

If they wanted to be first, they sure took their time about it -- Halliburton's book wasn't published until 1935.

What Ermakov told Halliurton was just a repeat of what had - in part- already broadcasted by the Bolsheviks since 1918.

AGRBear

[AGRBear]

[

 Anastasia still had long hair down her back. She wasn't more than seventeen, maybe younger.

If I recall I believe the girl's hair was only to their shoulder's by the night of the 16th.

Azrael

When the girls had the measles and shaved their heads, the hair was saved and often worn to make their hair look longer than it was.

These hair pieces were found in the Ipatiev House by the Whites and listed as items found.

AGRBear

[Sarushka]

When the girls had the measles and shaved their heads, the hair was saved and often worn to make their hair look longer than it was.

These hair pieces were found in the Ipatiev House by the Whites and listed as items found.

I think you're mistaken there, Bear. Yes, hair was found, but to my knowledge, not hairpieces. The girls' heads were shaved in June. The family was transported to Tobolsk in August. Considering they were under house arrest, how would they have found time or means to have those cuttings made into hairpieces?

Also, there is a letter from Tatiana, written in Tobolsk in February of 1918, in which she specifically states that she and her sisters were not wearing wigs.

[Alixz]

Just a thought about hair.. The Imperial Family would have had hairdressers in residence at Tsarskoe Selo.

Just my thought, but it might have been possible for the hair to have been made into "hair pieces" before they left for Tobolsk.

Also they took a great number of servants (retainers) with them and a good ladies maid would also have hairdressing skills.

I remember reading in Guy Richards The Hunt for the Tsar (proven to be fiction) but some of it based on fact, that hair was found in the stoves of the the Ipatiev House partially burned.  At that time, the theory was that heads had been shaved to disguise the girls for their rescue. ( Even hard material evidence can be misinterpreted.)

[AGRBear]

I think you're mistaken there, Bear. Yes, hair was found, but to my knowledge, not hairpieces. The girls' heads were shaved in June. The family was transported to Tobolsk in August. Considering they were under house arrest, how would they have found time or means to have those cuttings made into hairpieces?

Also, there is a letter from Tatiana, written in Tobolsk in February of 1918, in which she specifically states that she and her sisters were not wearing wigs.

Was it in June they shaved their heads?  I was thinking it was earlier. Wasn't it about March when Maria and Anastasia came down with the measles after Olga and Alexis who I thought had it in Feb.....    June would be three months later.....  I am not saying you're wrong but let me double check.

I'll be darn.  Gilliard Memoris tells us on 9 June 1917 the girls were wearing "headdresses" on their shaved heads.  And this is the day they were photographed.  [p. 576  A LIFELONG PASSION collected by Maylunas and Mironenko].


(from left to right):
Anastasia........................ Olga......................Alexei....................Maria........................Tatiana

Just a thought about hair.. The Imperial Family would have had hairdressers in residence at Tsarskoe Selo.

Just my thought, but it might have been possible for the hair to have been made into "hair pieces" before they left for Tobolsk.

Also they took a great number of servants (retainers) with them and a good ladies maid would also have hairdressing skills.

I remember reading in Guy Richards The Hunt for the Tsar (proven to be fiction) but some of it based on fact, that hair was found in the stoves of the the Ipatiev House partially burned.  At that time, the theory was that heads had been shaved to disguise the girls for their rescue. ( Even hard material evidence can be misinterpreted.)

Annie and I had this discussion over a year ago and I pulled out the information about the  hair pieces.   As soon as I remember where I found the information,  I'll state my sources.   At the moment I recall Annie had, also, gotten  the stories on the hair all jumbled up.  

I don't know if the girls wore wigs, however,  once their hair had grown out to some degree, they did make their hair appear longer by wearing "hair pieces" which cleverly extended the length of their hair.  And, these hair pieces were made from the hair which had been shaven off.   These hair pieces are listed among the items found in the Ipatiev House by the Whites after 20 July 1918.  

There was another time one of the Gr Duchesses was ill,    her  head was shaved during that illness and that hair had been made into hair pieces at that earlier time period.

This is not to be confused with the cut hair found on the floor.... in the Ipatiev House.   I think it was the bathroom floor.... This was the hair which some thought had been cut to change the appearances of the Gr. Duchesses/ Alexei and Nicholas II before  they had escaped.....  Yes, some investigators believed the IF had escaped....

I believe a priest, who saw the IF just before the execution, stated in his  testimony that Nicholas II had changed his appearance by shaving off part of his well known beard.

AGRBear

[Romanov_fan]

It is very interesting about the hair pieces. Certainly, it could be true. Ermakov was of course a typical communist who did not tell all the truth all the time. As well, as someone stated he was an alcholic with memory problems, but it was never to be assumed his memories would be truthful in the first place. Anyway, he does seem to capture the essence of otma well, I think. But we have to remember what he was like. If there had been something more than cakes between Marie and the guard, it would have been mentioned by him, I would think. It is a good description of otma.

[AGRBear]

It is very interesting about the hair pieces. Certainly, it could be true. Ermakov was of course a typical communist who did not tell all the truth all the time. As well, as someone stated he was an alcholic with memory problems, but it was never to be assumed his memories would be truthful in the first place. Anyway, he does seem to capture the essence of otma well, I think. But we have to remember what he was like. If there had been something more than cakes between Marie and the guard, it would have been mentioned by him, I would think. It is a good description of otma.

As I'm reading the thread,  all I see are the first few lines.  Is anyone else having problems pulling in the completed thread?  I clicked on the quote and then saw the entire post of imperial angel's.

Yes,  the hair pieces are interesting.  And, so, it would appear that Ermakov might have seen the GDs with what seemed like longer hair than what they actually had.

Do we really know if Ermakov drank all the time or did he just get good and drunk after the execution of Nicholas II and the others.

I'd like to track down the sources which tell us about Ermakov's drinking.

AGRBear

AGRBear

[Romanov_fan]

This forum is so slow, that it is hard to post replies, but I would say I am glad I found this thread, because I had never read about the hair pieces made of their own hair before, and I think if this is true, as Bear stated so well, Ermakov's memories in this regard could be accurate.

[susana]

RE: hairpieces--never heard or read of them. Everybody kept hair to press in books, or place in lockets, etc.
RE: Ermakov's drunkenness--referred to I believe by Summers and Mangold, and King and Massie. And they all source Ekaterinburg Reds.
RE: Ermakov's memories of the Grand Duchesses--according to Greg King, Maria and Anastasia were flirty and friendly with the guards; Tatiana was polite and proper insisting on proprieties, while Olga, who suffered from depression and the intelligence to see what was happening had apparently become bitter and unhappy. And she had been so charming like her grandmother the Dowager Empress prior to the ghastly war and revolution.
ALSO RE: Maria's birthday cake(s)--if Greg King in his excruciatingly detailed research found evidence of compromising behavior for Maria and a young guard, that's enough for me. Think what might be considered shameful and compromising under the circumstances of the imperial family's imprisonment. 1. receiving any gift from a guard, 2. secretly slipping into any empty room without chaperonage with a male guard, 3. perhaps holding hands, or hugging, or kissing, or leaning onto each other, or sharing a piece of cake, 4. reacting with anything like guilt, surprise, or shame when discovered with a man in an empty room. Any of these could be seen as a betrayal of the family bond of loyalty AND the young guard immediately disappeared from the guard list for the house shipped somewhere no doubt.
So, I've had my partial say and I hope this topic isn't dead as much of the previous threads' material can be addressed further.