Metternich - Winneberg

[Pierre NICOLAS]

Are you sure this is a portrait of Dorothea?
If so, it is not a good one, if we compare it to the 3 other portraits available.
Do you know its origin?

[Yseult]

To Pierre:

I can´t be really sure, Pierre. I have found the portrait at the net, and the lady was identified as Dorothea princess von Lieven. I´m very interesting in the Metternich relationship with Wilhelmina of Sagan, and, as you know, the iron chancellor related a lot of details about the liaison to her "chère amie" Dorothea of Lieven...

[Pierre NICOLAS]

Hello Yseult,

Here is to compare (and I hope I will make no mistake in the correct way to insert the pictures...)

The portrait you gave which, indeed, has illustrated the cover of a biography of her
http://www.pierrenicolas.com/Lieven/Ancestors%20and%20relatives/pages/DorotheevBenckendorfLieven00.htm

An engraving of a portrait by Dawe, I believe...
http://www.pierrenicolas.com/Lieven/Ancestors%20and%20relatives/pages/DorotheevBenckendorfLieven02.htm

The portrait by Lawrence, which George IV had above his bed
http://www.pierrenicolas.com/Lieven/Ancestors%20and%20relatives/pages/DorotheevBenckendorfLieven03.htm

and her last portrait, by a French painter
http://www.pierrenicolas.com/Lieven/Ancestors%20and%20relatives/pages/DorotheevBenckendorfLieven04.htm

Either the first one is of a different person, or it's a bad one.

Regards

[Yseult]

Mnnnn...I have my doubts, Pierre. It seems to me the same person but...the first portrait shows a Dorothea more beautiful This is not strange to me. I have a good number of images of Dorothea of Dino, for example, and she seems not the same person if you look at all these images... And if you look the engraving of Wilhelmina of Sagan, I think she was not as beautiful here as she was painted by Giusseppe Grassi...

[ipflo]

Hello,

Does some one has information on the Metternich Winneburg family? I knew they have had great estates in Bohemia (which ones were they, and had they only estates in Bohemia?), and had a wine castle in Germany. But the last prince had to sell this latter estate in 1970's. When the last prince died, did he had an inheritor for his estates or? And also have heard about a Metternich Sandor family, who are they and how do they relate to the Metternich Winneburgs?

thx

ipflo

[Marc]

Metternich-Winneburg(not Winneberg) zu Beilstein family had a castle Johannisberg and since Metternich-Winneburg family is now extinct Metternich-Sandor cousins(through female line) were adopted and they among others use family name of Metternich...there is somewhere in german section a thread about this family!

[ipflo]

The Metternich Sandors were adopted by the Metternich-Winneburgs? That's interesting: I thought the adoption of the Hohenlohe-Schillingfürsts was only by the Metternich Sandors.

[ipflo]

Ok. So the Metternich Sandors are not the heirs to the Metternich Winneburgs, but only the 'Sandor branch'?

thx.

[Marc]

Sandor is a family name Metternich family added to their name through Pauline who married  Richard via Princess Leontine-her mother,so that was the same family who inherited that name through female line.If the were Metternich-Winneburg now the name would be Metternich-Sandor-Winnebur0g.There is also a family Wolff-Metternich zur Gracht which have a title of Count and are still alive today.

[Princess Susan]

Does anybody have Pouline's photos with her husband or doughters by Disderi or another author?
Or any painting picture?

[beladona]

Sorry for the last post...I sent it before time

Richard and Pauline had three daughters:
1.-Sophie Marie Antoinette Leontine Melanie Julie Metternich-Sándor von Winneburg.
2.-Antoinette Pascaline Metternich-Sándor von Winneburg.
3.-Klementine Marie Melanie Sophie Leontine Crescentia Metternich-Sándor von Winneburg.

Another tragedy in Pauline´s life happened in 1890, when her son-in-law Georg Wilhelm von Waldstein, insane and alcoholic, murdered his wife Antoinette Pascaline in Duchkov. This also remembered her grand-mother Eleonore, who suffered a lot when she lost before time his two elder daughters, the clever and lovely Marie (favourite of her father) and the beautiful Clementine.

May I ask, where did you find these terrible story? I know very well genealogy of Waldstein family and I was always wonder why these young couple died so early (Georg Wilhelm died three months after his wife Antoinette)

[Yseult]

Sorry for the last post...I sent it before time

Richard and Pauline had three daughters:
1.-Sophie Marie Antoinette Leontine Melanie Julie Metternich-Sándor von Winneburg.
2.-Antoinette Pascaline Metternich-Sándor von Winneburg.
3.-Klementine Marie Melanie Sophie Leontine Crescentia Metternich-Sándor von Winneburg.

Another tragedy in Pauline´s life happened in 1890, when her son-in-law Georg Wilhelm von Waldstein, insane and alcoholic, murdered his wife Antoinette Pascaline in Duchkov. This also remembered her grand-mother Eleonore, who suffered a lot when she lost before time his two elder daughters, the clever and lovely Marie (favourite of her father) and the beautiful Clementine.

May I ask, where did you find these terrible story? I know very well genealogy of Waldstein family and I was always wonder why these young couple died so early (Georg Wilhelm died three months after his wife Antoinette)

Hello, beladona
I´m very sorry, but I don´t remember exactly where I found these stories...I wrotte my post, as you can see with your eyes, on November 02, 2006...a few months ago. My knowledge about the Metternich´s family comes mainly from a good number of books focused on Klemens von Metternich. Sometimes, books explains what happened to the family after his death. I suppose I read it in one book, but I can´t tell you more. The story impressed me so much.

[MarieCharlotte]

Do we have pictures of Pauline's three daughters?

[beladona]

Klemens Wenzel Nepomuk Lothar Prince Metternich-Winneburg is most famous memeber of house Metternich. But what about his siblings, wives and children?

Klemens had two siblings, Kunigunde, married (when she was nearly fifty years old) to Duke  Ferdinand of Württemberg, and younger brother Joseph. Is anything more known about them? Did they anyhow share the fame and position of their brother?
Kunigunde (b. 29 Nov 1771, d. 23 Jun 1855); m. 23 Feb 1817 Duke Ferdinand of Württemberg
Joseph Lothar Clemens (b. 14 Nov 1774, d. 9 Dec 1830); m. Juliane Franziska Pss Sulkowska

Klemens Metternich was three times married, his wives were:
Marie Eleonore Pss von Kaunitz-Rietberg (b. 1 Oct 1775, d. 19 Mar 1825)
Maria Antonia von Leykam, cr 1827 Countess von Beylstein (b. 15 Aug 1806- d. 17 Jan 1829)
Melanie Gfn Zichy (b. 28 Jan 1805, d. 3 Mar 1854)
Are there any pictures of them? His second marriage was found scandalous, because Maria Antonia was very beautiful, but not rich and not from high society. I know, there is a beautiful portrait of her, standing on terrace, but i did not find it on web.

Klemens had 14 children (and ilegitimate daughter by Katharina Bagration):
from first marriage:
Maria Leopoldina (b. 17 Jan 1797, d. 24 Jul 1820); m. 15 Sep 1817 Joseph Esterhazy
Franz (b. 21 Feb 1798, d. 3 Dec 1799)
Clemens Eduard (b. 1799, d. 15 Jul 1799)
Viktor (b. 12 Jan 1803, d. 30 Nov 1829); he had a son by Claire de Maillé de La Tour-Landry, Roger Armand Victor von Aldenburg (b. 21 Oct 1827, d. 14 Oct 1906)
Clementine (b. 30 Aug 1804, d. 6 May 1820)
Maria Antonia (b. 25 Aug 1806, d. 17 Jan 1829)
Leontine (b. 18 Jun 1811, d. 6 Nov 1861); m. 8 Feb 1835 Moritz Sándor von Slavnicza (d.23 Feb 1878)
Hermine (b. 1 Sep 1815, d. 8 Dec 1890)

from second marriage:
RICHARD Clemens (b. 7 Jan 1829, d. 1 Mar 1895); m. 30 Jun 1856 Pauline Sándor von Szlavnicza (b. 26 Mar 1836, d. 28 Sep 1921)

from third marriage:
Melanie (b. 27 Feb 1832, d. 16 Nov 1919); m. 20 Nov 1853 Joseph Zichy de Zich et Vásonykeö
Clemens (b. 21 Apr 1833, d. 10 Jun 1833)
PAUL Clemens Lothar (b. 14 Oct 1834, d. 6 Feb 1906); m. 9 May 1868 Melanie Zichy de Zich et Vásonykeö (b. 16 Aug 1843, d. 3 Aug 1925)
Maria (b. 23 Mar 1836, d. 12 Jun 1836)
Lothar (b. 12 Sep 1837, d. 2 Oct 1904); m.1st 21 Apr 1868 Karoline Reitter (d.21 Sep 1899); m.2d 5 Jun 1900 Franziska Mittrowsky von Mittrowitz (b. 10 Nov 1846, d. 19 Mar 1918)

Most of children from first marriage died very young, only two daugters survived their father.  Favourite child of Clemens was his firstborn daughter, Maria. Her early death devastated him (moreover two months before her death died her younger sister Clementina).
Any informations and pictures of his children?

[Yseult]

This is his first wife, Eleonore "Laure" von Kaunitz:



Not her father, count von Kaunitz, neither her maternal aunt Eleonore von Liechtenstein, "Duchess Lory", an arbiter of Vienna´s society, were happy when young Laure fell in love with Klemens. But Laure was strong-willed enough to make them to accept her engagedment to Klemens, who was, in turn, to frankly enough to say that he was to marry the rich heiress because his parents wished it.

And this is Marie, elder daughter of the couple and favourite daughter of Klemens. He said: "I always find myself again in her".