Author Topic: The Stroganoffs  (Read 118977 times)

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Offline AkshayChavan

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The Stroganoffs
« on: February 22, 2006, 03:08:50 PM »
Thanks to my great obsession with the wealth of Russian nobility, i have been researching heavily on this topic. One of the most surprising findings of my research has been that the Stroganoff wealth on eve of the revolution is greatly exagerated. I dont even think that Stroganovs were among the top five richest families on eve of the revolution.

In the beginning of my argument, i would like to clearly state that i am not talking about the 16th and 17th century when Stroganovs were indeed among the richest in the world. This is specifically on eve of the revolution. My assumptions of wealth are based on four criteria as defined by Dominic Lieven in his book -
Agricultural land, Forestry, Urban property and Industry.

1) Agricultural land- It is true that Stroganoffs were largest landowners in Russia on eve of the revolution. They owned 14,00,000 desyatin of land. However, as Dominic Lieven states most of this land was arid Ural land. The land in Ukraine was valued almost 10 times as Ural lands. DL states that the most valuable lands as per their valuation belonged to Yussupovs followed by Orlov-Davydovs and then Sheremetevs. Thus, Stroganoffs did not have any agricultural land to derive income from.

2) Forestry -  This was the only source of income for Stroganoffs. They owned large Perm forests which brought good income.

3) Urban Property - Surprisingly, Stroganoffs did not own any large real estate investments. They owned just the Stroganoff Palace on Nevsky and the Pavel Stroganoff palace. This brought no income. The biggest landowners in StPetersburg were Princes Beloselsky-Belozersky who owned the entire Krestovsky Island which brought in fantastic income. Biggest Landowners in Moscow were Sheremetevs. Another family with very valuable real estate were Counts Stenbock-Fermor who owned hotels and shopping arcades. Shuvalovs owned six apartment buildings.

4) Industry - This brought in large income for nobles. While it is true that Stroganoffs owned large iron plants and mines, they were all bankrupt. In 1908, Count Stroganoff closed down all his mines and factories and decided to concentrate on forestry (Aristocracy in Europe , Page no: 48 ) . Even Demidoffs were facing heavy losses. The Nobles with highest income from industry were Princes Abamelek-Lazarev. Also Yussupovs, Shuvalovs, Sheremetevs and Orlov-Davydov had large industrial investments.

                Thus what we see from above is that Stroganoffs did not have large investments nor land. Their "Wealth" was only their art collection and palaces. They paled in comparison with the other nobles.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 12:48:27 PM by Forum Admin »

Offline AkshayChavan

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Re: The Stroganovs
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2006, 05:29:59 PM »
I believe the most "under estimated" family in terms of wealth would be the Shuvalovs. Maybe because they were not very glamorous . However this would be the family with most number of wealthy branches. When we speak of "Sheremetevs" or "Orlov-Davydovs", we speak of joint property of two brothers. If taken individually they would not be in the top 10 list. However, in case of Shuvalovs, there are two Count Shuvalovs who would be in top 10 richest list based on their "individual" wealth. Count Michael Andreivich Shuvalov and Count Paul Petrovich Shuvalov, both first cousins were among the richest nobles in Russia. There were also Shuvalovs of Rundale Palace who were not as rich. Funnily, Shuvalovs made their money in the oldest way in the world. By "marrying it". Count Micheal Shuvalov inherited the entire wealth of Princes Vorontzov from his uncle. Similarly Count Paul Shuvalov inherited the entire Narishkin inheritance, including the Shuvalov palace on Fontanka from his mother. His wife Betzy Shuvalov was famous for her parties. Sadly both the branches of the Shuvalov family were extinct before the revolution.
The wealth of Count Micheal passed to Countess Vorontzov-Dashkov. Similarly Princess Olga Dolgoruky, sister of Count Paul Shuvalov brought 39,000 desyatin of land to the Dolgoruky family. She too is mentioned in the Vorontzov-Dashkov thread.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AkshayChavan »

Offline frimousse

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Re: The Stroganovs
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2006, 06:49:03 PM »
 ::) The last count Stroganoff was Sergey Alexandrovich (1852-1923) grandson of Sergey Grigorievich who sold a great part of his grand father's collection in Paris.
I think this is the portrait of the Stroganoff  I am talking about, as Sergey Alexandrovitch at 30 y old would have been very very tired and old on this portrait ????

Sergey Grigorievitch (so Sergey Alexandrovich's grand father) married his distant cousin Nathalia Pavlovna Stroganoff grand daughter of the great mecenate Alexandre Stroganoff and inheritated the fortune of the family. He was extremely gifted...
The Stroganoff family was talented and much more intellectually distinguished than other families...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by frimousse »

james_h

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Re: The Stroganovs
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2006, 12:08:38 AM »

I'm having trouble understanding....is there a disagreement here?

The portrait above is from the french version of... "Stroganoff: the palace and collections of a russian noble family" published by HARRY N. ABRAMS, INC. A publishing house which quite possibly has freemasonic conections. (I'm basing that on the company's logo, which would be fitting given this particular family's history within freemasonry :))

The subject in the portrait is Count Sergei Grigorievich Stroganoff.

Akshaychavan wrote:
"In 1908, Count Stroganoff closed down all his mines and factories and decided to concentrate on forestry"
This, presumably was Count Sergei Alexandrovich, by virtue of his being the one of only three Stroganoff Counts alive at the time. The others being his ( Childless?!?) uncles Pavel and Grigory.

Offline frimousse

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Re: The Stroganovs
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2006, 08:09:54 AM »
Thank you I agree with you  ;)
By the way this book is absolutely marvellous !
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by frimousse »

Offline AkshayChavan

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Re: The Stroganovs
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2006, 12:29:25 PM »
Pavel Stroganoff died heirless. Gregory Stroganoff had a daughter Princess Maria Scherbatoff who was killed with her children during the revolution. For details see thread on "nobility killed during the revolution".

Offline Vassili_Vorontsoff

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Re: The Stroganovs
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2007, 05:20:42 PM »
Palace stroganov

Offline Vassili_Vorontsoff

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Re: The Stroganovs
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2007, 05:22:14 PM »
I've some more...I'll post later and hope that some would be interested -given the fact it takes quite a time to scan so if anybody really interested in...it would spare me time ,please let some info if you do have on this palaces,or pics...

« Last Edit: March 04, 2007, 05:24:54 PM by Vassili_Vorontsoff »

Offline Vassili_Vorontsoff

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Re: The Stroganovs
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2007, 02:42:37 PM »
I searched in the previous pages a part deidcated to this palace and found nothing...despite me not having many to post here,it deserve to have a special section for such an exceptional palace!


Offline Vassili_Vorontsoff

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Re: The Stroganovs
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2007, 07:38:37 PM »


Vassia

Offline polignac

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Re: The Stroganovs
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2008, 03:54:33 PM »
Idalia or Idaliya or Idalya? Poletika was born in 1807 or 1811 and died in 1889. She was the illegimated daugther of Count Grigory Stroganov and of his second wife, Juliana de Oyenhausen e Almeida, a beautiful portuguese aristocrat, lover of Junot during the french invasion of Portugal.
Poletika was educated with the sons and heirs of the Stroganov fortune. She was distinguished by a beautiful appearance, rich culture, and a sharp mind. She was also a very intriguist aristocrat.
She married in 1829 with a colonel, Aleksandr Mikhailovich Poletika or Poletiki or Poletiko?. Nevertheless, she had a lover: Pyotr Petrovich Lanksoy. She was also a friend of Natalia Pushkina, and of D'Anthès. She was implicated in the scandal D'Anthès-Pushkin.

Do anyone know where did she lived? I know that she offered her apartment, in the cavalry-guardsmen’s quarters where her husband served, for the last meeting of Natalia and D’Anthes.

Offline polignac

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Re: The Stroganovs
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2008, 04:00:24 PM »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: The Stroganovs
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2008, 04:17:18 PM »
Wow, she looks really beautiful, even by the 21st Century standards. I never heard of her before this, thanks for posting!

Offline gogm

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Re: The Stroganovs
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2008, 03:48:42 AM »
Who was the artist?