Love matches in Victoria's family

[Prince_Lieven]

I see what you mean. On the other hand, we wouldn't have much evidence for just about any royals if most of the talk was in private--as most love talk is.    Royals too, unlike 'regular people', probably weren't given much to demonstrative behavior in front of others--handholding, etc...so written letters are probably the best we have.

Of course, yes, you're absolutely right.

One anecdote I like though, concerning GV&QM, also involved Prince John. GV gave QM a kiss upon returning from shooting and John said that she 'kissed Papa. Ugly old man.' The story was told to show John's personality but I found it interesting that GV&QM felt comfortable enough in front of others to share a kiss--I think it was Lala Bill who recorded it but I'm not sure.

That is a good story! Strange, isn't it, that while demonstrative behaviour between spouses in front of others wasn't encouraged, it was ok with grandchildren and other relatives? Wasn't there a time when Christmas carols were being song and upon hearing 'all mankind' the future Elizabeth II hugged her grandfather and said 'I know who old Man Kind is!' Awww.

[YaBB_Jose]

George and May loved each other a heck of a lot more than Missy & Nando--more than many royals period. I don't think they were as in love when they got married as they were later but their own letters bear out that they did love each other when they married.

May was engaged to Eddie who died in 1892.
The next year she got married to George.
Did she develop such a great love after the sorrow (?) of loosing her former fiancée ?
Was she in love with Eddie or was it just another arranged marriage ?

[Prince_Lieven]

With Eddy is was just arranged, I think. QV, who was quite perspacacious (sp?) remarked 'Of course May never did care for dear Eddy.'

[Grace]

With Eddy is was just arranged, I think. QV, who was quite perspacacious (sp?) remarked 'Of course May never did care for dear Eddy.'

Well, I think Victoria said "May was never in love with Eddy".

I hope you don't mind this tiny correction, Lieven.  

[Eric_Lowe]

Yes...May's son Daviod openly questioned her ability to love by sayinmg their must be ice in those veins of hers. Empress Frederick also commented on her inability to show effection to her children. I think with may (and George) everything becomes a habit...

[grandduchessella]

Yes, small correction but with a wealth of meaning.  

She and Eddy had known each other since childhood and while she was closer to George, Louise and Maud, she obviously liked Eddy well-enough. I think it would've been a comfortable but rather unfulfilling marriage.

Their marriage would've fallen into the 'not a love match' category of this thread.

[Eric_Lowe]

in short another "arranged marriage".  

[grandduchessella]

If I hear that quote of David's one more time I'm going to be ill. He was responsible for most of the impressions left & they're repeated as gospel whereas other, warmer anecdotes of his are ignored. I wonder if he realized how much it would be repeated. Neither parent was demonstrative (though probably not abnormally so considering their time and station) but neither had 'ice water' in their veins either. Vicky did think May was stiff but few, including QV, had as much 'baby worship' as Vicky. She also didn't observe much of May with her children--I don't think she was even in England after Henry was born.

But we have plenty of threads already for this discussion.  

[grandduchessella]

in short another "arranged marriage".  

Well, that's not an evil thing in royal circles. QV's family was better, and luckier, than most in that no one was dragged kicking and screaming into an arranged marriage. They didn't always end up well but we thought of with good intentions--even Ducky's & Missy's. There were some royal families where feelings weren't a consideration at all. If May and Eddy, for instance, had had a strong aversion to each other, the marriage would've been dropped. Neither set of parents, nor QV, wanted to see them miserable just for the sake of duty. Same with George. He was uncomfortable with some of the open press speculation and even went to Greece to talk to his beloved Aunt Olga about it. She'd known May from the Rumpenheim gatherings and spoke well of her.

[Eric_Lowe]

Yes it was this nature of May that makes it hard to locate when George and her fell in love. It was more marry first and love comes later. May was also cruel to Margaret and ignored her in favour of Lilibet (her favourite grand daughter).

[grandduchessella]

Margaret, like David and Marie Pavlovna, also looked back on many things in her life with bitterness and didn't mind who she trashed in the process.   One of the reasons I don't care for them--except for MP who at least pulled herself up in great adversity--too much 'pity partying' going on.

On topic again though--would Margaret and Anthony Armstrong-Jones be considered a love match? I don't know much about how they met or why they married.

[Eric_Lowe]

However it must be said there are flaws in May's nature that so many picked it up. She once said of her mother-in-law "Selfish old woman ! ". No...May is no saint and evidently had character flaws, and her treatment of her youngest son John would be considered cruel and unfeeling to many. I have to say you are a most faithful defender of May, but have to accept even she had faults in her nature too. I guess my point here is that because of her inability to show affection, it was hard to know where she and George (iof they ever) fell in love. She was always in awe of GV, both in person and position (the King). Unlike Alix and Cookie, who sometimes do as they wished.

[grandduchessella]

No, I know she has flaws and have acknowledged them repeatedly. I'm just sick of some of the slander and one-sidedness. The stories of Prince John especially--I suggest that people read some of Charlotte Zeepvatt's articles on them (I ordered some through Interlibrary Loan) in Royalty Digest. She does a great job there--she's also the one in her book who debunked the myth of David and the vicious nurse. I can't wait for her new book.

Anyway, again, back on topic.  

[Grace]

Yes it was this nature of May that makes it hard to locate when George and her fell in love. It was more marry first and love comes later. May was also cruel to Margaret and ignored her in favour of Lilibet (her favourite grand daughter).

I would be interested to know in what way was May supposedly 'cruel' to Margaret.  While I think Lilibet was the favourite grandchild of both May and George, I doubt if May could ever have been 'cruel' to her own grandchild.  Margaret was outrageously spoilt by both her parents and pretty much did as she pleased and I would bet that May found this a little hard to take at times and perhaps ignored her a little but I am sure she would not have been cruel.

I tend to think that the Margaret/Antony Armstrong-Jones union was not a true love match.  I think they liked each other a lot, he introduced Margaret to a new set of fashionable friends and she probably felt a bit 'on the shelf' anyway - she was over 30 when she married - pretty old even for the early 1960's!

Like I always say though...I COULD BE WRONG!  

[Prince_Lieven]

Well, I think Victoria said "May was never in love with Eddy".

I hope you don't mind this tiny correction, Lieven.  

Of course not Grace, thank you.  

Marriages like George and Marina, Henry and Alice, would they be considered love matches? I think so, but I'm not certain.