Author Topic: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar  (Read 93730 times)

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Offline Bourgogne

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #75 on: March 29, 2011, 07:47:03 PM »
Hi,

Mercy!!  How ever does one walk in a dress like that???  Never mind dance in one?
Just pulling that train would be an engineering marvel!!!

Larry

I've seen an amazing serie of little cartoons with comic comments about this fashion of skin-tight dresses in "l'Illustration", the famous french magazine, around 1875... Even at this time, they found that it was a very uncomfortable fashion! Though I find it was soooo posh...

It's a little off-topic with Wilhelm I and Augusta, but I'll post it here in a few days (with translations of the little captions), it's really funny...

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #76 on: March 31, 2011, 01:41:18 PM »
The Kaiserpaar (1880)


I've seen an amazing serie of little cartoons with comic comments about this fashion of skin-tight dresses in "l'Illustration", the famous french magazine, around 1875... Even at this time, they found that it was a very uncomfortable fashion! Though I find it was soooo posh...

I really would like to see that!!  :)

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #77 on: April 01, 2011, 03:32:03 AM »
The Kaiserpaar (1880)


I've seen an amazing serie of little cartoons with comic comments about this fashion of skin-tight dresses in "l'Illustration", the famous french magazine, around 1875... Even at this time, they found that it was a very uncomfortable fashion! Though I find it was soooo posh...

I really would like to see that!!  :)

That's not Augusta near Wilhelm. That's his sister GDss Alexandrine of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin.

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #78 on: April 01, 2011, 04:09:30 AM »
I was just looking at the picture and wondering why a man's wife would be wearing a widow's headress!

Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #79 on: April 01, 2011, 10:56:06 AM »
Augusta




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"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

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Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #80 on: April 12, 2011, 01:09:55 PM »
Kaiserin Augusta

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #81 on: April 12, 2011, 04:19:43 PM »
Augusta






We see a lot of Fritz in his mother here.
HerrKaiser

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #82 on: June 15, 2011, 01:15:00 PM »
Kaiserin Augusta

Offline DNAgenie

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Illegitimate daughter of Kaiser Wilhelm I?
« Reply #83 on: June 25, 2011, 01:58:22 AM »
When Queen Victoria's second son Prince Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh visited Australia in 1867 as the captain of HMS Galatea, he carried a Letter of Introduction to German immigrants Louis Dettmann and his wife Agnes (nee Kroll), then living in Sydney.  Originally from Berlin, the Dettmanns had been married in London in December 1848 and left for Australia 10 days later, arriving in Sydney in 1849.  Louis Dettmann had become a naturalised British citizen in 1860.  The Letter of Introduction had been written by Wilhelm I, King of Prussia (later Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany), whose son Frederick was married to Alfred's sister, Princess Victoria of Great Britain. It seems remarkable that a Royal Prince should carry a Letter of Introduction to the Steward of the NSW Parliament (as Louis Dettmann then was) as Letters of Introduction in those days carried stringent social obligations and were usually carried between person of similar social standing.

Prince Alfred met the Dettmann family in Sydney and formed a firm friendship with their eldest son Louis Dettmann. Although Louis was only 17 years old Alfred was only 23, so there wasn't that much difference in their ages. The Dettmanns had been planning to send young Louis back to Berlin, to be taught the rudiments of the restaurant trade by his Kroll relatives, and Prince Alfred offered to help.  He appointed young Louis an Honorary Aide-de-Camp and gave him passage back to Europe on the Galatea.

The possible explanation for Prince Alfred's actions is that Agnes Kroll was the illegitimate daughter of Kaiser Wilhelm I, or Prinz Wilhelm of Prussia as he was at her birth, and that she had been given into the care of Josef Kroll and his wife as a foster child to raise as Kroll's own daughter. If this was true, Prince Alfred's brother-in-law, Crown Prince Frederick of Prussia, would have been the half-brother of Agnes Kroll, Mrs Dettmann, and that could explain the Emperor's Letter of Introduction, and Alfred's friendship with young Louis Dettmann.

Agnes's daughter Jane Dettmann (1866-1953) maintained throughout her life that her mother was a Princess, daughter of the Emperor, and the claim was investigated in 2008 in an Australian episode of the TV program "Who Do You Think You Are?" featuring Australian-born international rights lawyer Geoffrey Robertson, QC, who is Jane Dettmann's great grandson.

The results were suggestive, but not conclusive.  There is no doubt that Agnes was raised as the daughter of Joseph Kroll, owner and operator of the Kroll Etablissement in Berlin, better known as the Kroll Oper, or Kroll Opera House, and that her husband Louis Dettmann had been pastry chef at the Kroll Etablissement. However no records could be found of Agnes Kroll's birth, her father Joseph Kroll's marriage or the identity of his wife (although he is known to have had 5 children, and his wife and children were mentioned in newspaper reports of the day in Berlin) nor is there a record of his will or of his wife's death. The only evidence that researchers could find in the Berlin Archives were the record of his death, and marriage records for two of his daughters, plus a letter written by Prinz Wilhelm to his brother King Frederick Wilhelm IV, requesting that the King should grant favours to Joseph Kroll. The King apparently accceded to this request, as he granted a piece of prime Berlin real estate on the Koenigsplatz to Joseph Kroll in 1841, on which Joseph proceeded to build the Kroll Opera House. Geoffrey Robertson's conclusion was "Whited Out. Joseph Kroll's wife was whited out of the records.  They didn't want any of this revealed."

This is a brief resume of an extraordinary story.  I would be interested to know if there's anyone out there who can throw light on the matter.




Offline DNAgenie

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #84 on: July 08, 2011, 11:25:39 PM »
Quote
The possible explanation for Prince Alfred's actions is that Agnes Kroll was the illegitimate daughter of Kaiser Wilhelm I, or Prinz Wilhelm of Prussia as he was at her birth, and that she had been given into the care of Josef Kroll and his wife as a foster child to raise as Kroll's own daughter. If this was true, Prince Alfred's brother-in-law, Crown Prince Frederick of Prussia, would have been the half-brother of Agnes Kroll, Mrs Dettmann, and that could explain the Emperor's Letter of Introduction, and Alfred's friendship with young Louis Dettmann.

A researcher has come up with a quite extraordinary suggestion: that Agnes Kroll could have been the daughter of Prince Wilhelm of Prussia and his first love, Princess Elisa Radziwill.

I am not aware of any rumours that Elisa might have had a child by Wilhelm, but it would certainly explain the odd circumstances that I mentioned in the above post, and there is other confirmatory evidence as well.

The dates fit, as Agnes was born on 30 Jan 1824, after the marriage had been provisionally approved by Wilhelm's father, King Frederick Willhelm III, but during the period when progress had stalled because of opposition to the Radziwill connection within the Prussian court.  It seems possible that Wilhelm and Elisa had decided to present them with a fait accompli and conceived a child, which could have been born at the newly-built Radziwill hunting lodge at Antonin in Silesia. If the child had been a boy, who knows what might have happened, and the history of Germany could have been quite different! But as the child was a girl she could be conveniently ignored as part of the Prussian succession, and the marriage would not happen.

So Agnes was given to the Krolls to be brought up as their own daughter.  Joseph Kroll was bought off by being given a large and valuable piece of land next door to the royal palace on the Koenigsplatz in Berlin, where he built his Kroll Etablissement and make a big splash in Berlin's nightlife. This had the advantage, from Wilhelm's point of view, that the Krolls would be under his eye, and his beloved daughter was conveniently placed for unobtrusive family visits.

However in 1848 the situation changed.  In February there was a political uprising in Berlin and William had to leave Germany, fleeing to England in fear of his life. Then in April Agnes’s ostensible father Joseph Kroll died, so her position became more vulnerable.   I think Wilhelm made use of his time in England to make arrangements for Agnes to travel to London to be married, then on to Australia.  He is recorded as meeting the exiled Austrian Chancellor Metternich at a party at the German Embassy, when Metternich was going by the name of Herr von Meyer. It is worth noting that when Agnes was married to Louis Dettmann in London in December, en route to Australia, one of the witnesses was named Meyer.

I think it likely that Wilhelm might also have had support from Queen Victoria. If he had had a child by Elisa, QV might have been one of a very small circle to have known about it.  She would have pooh-poohed the idea that the marriage should not take place because of ‘inequality’, as she had a blazing row with Empress Augusta on a similar subject some years later. She might not have approved of the child being born out of wedlock, but given that it had happened I don’t believe she would have turned her back on the couple.  Also, there seems to me a distinct possibility that Wilhelm and Elisa could have gone through some sort of marriage ceremony, or to have signed a marriage contract which had later been annulled by the King, so there are several reasons why she could have been on side. When Wilhelm arrived in London on 27 March he was received by the Queen (privately) at Buckingham Palace, and I suspect that he would have told her the whole story then, if she didn’t know most of it already.

This would explain why Prince Alfred was allowed to carry a Letter of Introduction from the German Emperor to the Dettmanns in Australia in 1867. Agnes Kroll would have been regarded by them as a German Princess in all but name, with royal parentage on both sides, and therefore suitable to be introduced to members of the British royal family, to whom she was related. In fact she would have been Alfred’s 3rd cousin as well as being his sister’s husband’s half-sister.

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2011, 11:58:37 AM »
The Kaiser & Kaiserin

Offline THERRY

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #86 on: July 16, 2011, 07:34:56 AM »
Beautiful Thanks

Offline Zukunftsseele

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #87 on: July 30, 2011, 06:53:14 AM »
I love the colours. It's beautiful. :-)







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Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #88 on: August 06, 2011, 11:45:39 AM »
Portrait of Augusta in 1840



 

Courtesy of Grand Duchess Ally

"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

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Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar
« Reply #89 on: December 21, 2011, 01:09:32 PM »
Card showing the Empress...