Kaiser Wilhelm I & Augusta of Saxe-Weimar

[Yelena Aleksandrovna]

The Kaiser with his family at 1876: Click here!!!

[Yelena Aleksandrovna]

Found this as Augusta, she looks very young here

[Yelena Aleksandrovna]

Modern portrait of Augusta when Queen of Prussia


Source: thomas-sz.com

Surely based in this old postcard, sorry for the size  

And the Queen of Prussia in her coronation robes, 1861. The first time I see her wearing them!!


For a bigger verssion, just click here!!

[Yelena Aleksandrovna]

Saved from the Royal Collection
Drawing of Augusta, Queen of Prussia in coronation robes.

[Marie Valerie]

In the book "Auf der ganzen Welt nur sie: Die verbotene Liebe zwischen Prinzessin Elisa Radziwill und Wilhelm von Preußen" the author Dagmar von Gersdorff writes that there were more than 30 assessments for or against Elisas Ebenbürtigkeit..

[Marie Valerie]

Tuberculosis killed Elisa aged 30 and also 4 of her 6 siblings.
Even if Wilhelm had married Elisa she would have died young, maybe in childbirth...

In the end Wilhelm would marry Augusta anyway.
The pro-russian people at the Berlin court and Maria Pawlowna wanted it that way.

But I'm curious how the polish minority in Prussia and Russia would react to a half-polish Princess of Prussia..
or if Elisa would have a healthy son as heir to the throne.. fascinating.

[DNAgenie]

Insert Quote

In the book "Auf der ganzen Welt nur sie: Die verbotene Liebe zwischen Prinzessin Elisa Radziwill und Wilhelm von Preußen" the author Dagmar von Gersdorff writes that there were more than 30 assessments for or against Elisas Ebenbürtigkeit..

Marie_Valerie, have you read the book?  Can you read German?  I am interested in some details of Princess Elisa's life but I cannot translate it myself.

[DNAgenie]

In posts 83 and 84 of this thread a theory was put forward that Prince Wilhelm of Prussia and Princess Elisa Radziwill might have had a child named Agnes. Extensive DNA testing has proved this theory to be true, and the story of the romance and how the mystery was uncovered is told in a new book, entitled 'Agnes: The Secret Princess.  An Australian Story' by Belinda Dettmann and Jane Stevens. The book will shortly be available from the authors, who can be contacted at belindadettmann "at" optusnet "dot" com "dot" au.

[Превед]

In posts 83 and 84 of this thread a theory was put forward that Prince Wilhelm of Prussia and Princess Elisa Radziwill might have had a child named Agnes. Extensive DNA testing has proved this theory to be true, and the story of the romance and how the mystery was uncovered is told in a new book, entitled 'Agnes: The Secret Princess.  An Australian Story' by Belinda Dettmann and Jane Stevens.

Interesting, also the fact that a fait accompli in the form of a pregnancy wasn't enough to convince the powers that be to accept the union. (Supposing the sexual relationship wasn't delayed untill after the matter was settled.) Of course, back then in the Vormärz it was much easier to cover up potential scandals than a few decades later. I wonder what would happened if the Duke of Clarence and Princess Hélène of Orléans had done the same in the 1890s..... Would the involved royal families have whisked Hélène away for her to give birth in secrecy and put the child away for adoption?

[Marie Valerie]

Who was tested fot the DNA? Hohenzollern? Radziwill?

I still think it's nonsense...

[DNAgenie]

Who was tested fot the DNA? Hohenzollern? Radziwill?

I believe that DNA tests were done on both Hohenzollern and Radziwill lines.

[DNAgenie]

In posts 83 and 84 of this thread a theory was put forward that Prince Wilhelm of Prussia and Princess Elisa Radziwill might have had a child named Agnes. Extensive DNA testing has proved this theory to be true, and the story of the romance and how the mystery was uncovered is told in a new book, entitled 'Agnes: The Secret Princess.  An Australian Story' by Belinda Dettmann and Jane Stevens.

Details of the book can be read at http://agnessecretprincess.com

Evidence for the birth has been accepted by an authoritative European royalty database at www.genealogics.org and the relevant entry appears there at http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00006879&tree=LEO

[Marie Valerie]

It is possible that Wilhelm I. had children out of wedlock - but I'm sure the mother was not Elisa.

In her letters and the diary of Elisa's friend Lulu there was no mention of Elisa beeing locked up or that she was out of sight for long to cover up a pregnancy.
Elisa was also sickly she would have not survived a childbirth.
And the Berlin Society don't know anything about it, the court was full of People, the lovestory of Wilhelm & Elisa was well known, that a child could have been a secret in therse society it's nonsense.

I can also start a database and say I'm the daughter of King X and Miss Y - that is no proof at all.......

[DNAgenie]

Just updating Dettmann family matches to Hohenzollern and Radziwill descendants, there are now autosomal DNA results from 10 different members of the Dettmann family, and these have been compared with similar DNA results from 9 different testers in four different families (now living in South Africa, New Zealand, Germany and the USA) who descend from Wilhelm I and/or Elisa Radziwill.

Comparing members of the Dettmann family with each of the other testers, we now have 8 matching results at the minimum 7cM level, and 14 more at the 5cM level, with proof that all four families are related through those lines of descent.

[Превед]

Just updating Dettmann family matches to Hohenzollern and Radziwill descendants, there are now autosomal DNA results from 10 different members of the Dettmann family, and these have been compared with similar DNA results from 9 different testers in four different families (now living in South Africa, New Zealand, Germany and the USA) who descend from Wilhelm I and/or Elisa Radziwill.

So, considering that Elisa Radziwill died without issue (with the possible exception of this Agnes Dettmann), have you compared the Dettmann DNA with that of legitimate descendants of Wilhelm I, i.e. royals or legitimate descendants of royals?