Author Topic: Alexei Legends or Facts?  (Read 8141 times)

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Offline Maj. Jesse Cairns

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Alexei Legends or Facts?
« on: March 03, 2006, 07:41:54 AM »
This may be the incorrect place to put this post--I am simply not sure.   This is allegedly a true account concerning Alexei (in the summer of 1914), JUST after the War started.   I am trying to find out if it is only legend or FACT.   ( I did search for a thread site for Alexei legends, but did not find one)  Well . . . here goes :


        ADMIRAL ALEKSEY IN COMMAND—1914

When World War 1 broke out in the summer of 1914, between Russia and Germany, the Royal Family was not at Tsarskoe-Selo but rather, at sea. On one occasion, as they were returning to port, Nicholas and the Captain went ashore to discuss tactics with some generals. The ship—the Standardt—was to remain circling around the fjords [of Finland?].

It was raining, so visibility was low. With the Standardt’s Captain and the Tsar absent, Alexei—the 9 year-old heir apparent—was technically in command. While Alexei was playing with a friend in his state room, he was suddenly summoned to command the bridge.

Upon arrival, the Tsarevich was informed that an unidentified ship was approaching. Knowing well that the War had just started and that they could be in danger, he made his decision with all deliberate speed. He had the crew plot an intercept course and load and position all weapons.

Once they were in weapons range, without hesitation, he ordered them to fire. It was a direct hit on the aft section of the other vessel. At this, the other ship came about and was preparing to return fire upon the Standardt. Knowing this, Alexei ordered evasive manoeuvres.

The unidentified ship returned fire, but missed. Then as it closed on them, one of the Standardt’s crewman was able to see the incoming vessel clearly with some binoculars. He recognized it as being the Polar Star [the Tsar’s other private ship]. Then, Alexei ordered the Standardt’s engine telegraph to All-stop and he had the crew run up the white flag.

The Polar Star (His grandmothers ship), slowed it's approach. Alexei finally ordered the Standardt to go alongside of the Polar Star to bring survivors aboard.  Alexei was not punished for what he did. Dispite the ending result, he did do the right thing. An unidentified ship was approaching them during a time of war. He had no way of knowing that it was his grandmothers ship, since visual identification was difficult and the Standardt’s radio was temporarily out.  This incident was not widely known.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by JesseCairns »

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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2006, 08:25:50 AM »
TOTAL MYTH!
With the war approaching, the IF left the Finnish fjords on 6 July. President Poincare of France arrived 7 July for his State visit. Nicholas ordered General Mobilisation on 18 July, with the IF at Tsarskoe. War was declared 19 July.

Offline Maj. Jesse Cairns

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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2006, 08:45:21 AM »
Since it is alleged that the Alexei story is a myth, should we simply go ahead and remove this particular thread from the Alexei section of interest?

--jesse


Offline clockworkgirl21

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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2006, 02:03:39 PM »
I think we should leave it so people know it's a myth. I thought it was true up until now.

Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2006, 02:15:01 PM »
Same here. In three months someone could post the exact same topic...

amanduhh592

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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2006, 04:43:00 PM »
I found this one. Is it true or false?

While Alexei was at the front, he stayed at the military base at Stavka. Alexei's presence had a profound effect on the troops. He was a sign of hope for the future to these troops. He would accompany his father on inspections, and diplomatic functions. He did all this for around nine months, then something(This is only rumored, and has not been proven) may have split him and his father apart.

It is rumored that, one day in mid-summer 1915, Alexei, his Tutor Pierre Gilliard, The Tsar, and a General went into a military hospital. Upon their arrival they were greeted by a doctor. Nicholas then asked this doctor how the regiment was doing. The doctor told him that they were doing very poorly. Then Nicholas and the General were taken by the doctor into another room. While Gilliard, and Alexei waited for them to return, Alexei began to walk around the ward they were in. He came up to one soldier which had lost a leg, then he looked at this soldiers face. It was the face of a child. He looked at the medical record by this patients bed, and it said the year of birth was 1903. This patient was only one year older than Alexei. He immediately questioned his tutor about this. In response the tutor told him that he knows about it. Alexei was furious, and asked if there were anymore like this. Gilliard told him, "Yes." Then Alexei asked how many, the tutor looked at the door that Alexei's father went through, and replied, "I don't know." Alexei went to the door, and Gilliard was unable to stop him. When Alexei entered that room, a wave of horror hit him like a brick wall. In that room were between 200-300 children, with either bullet wounds, burns, or missing limbs. He was horrified, then Alexei's father realized he was there. When Nicholas reached Alexei, he told him not to over react. Alexei asked his father if he really did send these children into battle. Nicholas replied with something like, "Desperate times deserve desperate measures.". Alexei then said in extreme anger, "How long did you think that you could keep this from me." Then he stormed out of the building. That evening, Alexei and his tutor headed back to the palace.



I dont think its true... but whatev

Offline Vive_HIH_Aleksey

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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2006, 05:25:30 PM »
I've been curious about that for many years myself. Someone desperately needs to contact that site's creator and point out the inaccuracies!
Hatred – this is a disgusting feeling. Yes, there is sport gambling, there is a striving to win. But to hate someone – this is awful! I think, that first of all you have to learn to respect your rival. -- Evgeni Plushenko

Offline Natasya

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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2006, 05:41:19 PM »
At the time, the people were angry about how the war was going, so they made up stories about the Imperial family and a lot to do with Alexei. Like the one where the general sees Alexei crying, and asks what was wrong. Then Alexei was supposed to say: Papa crys when the Russians lose, and Mama crys when the Germans lose. Who am I supposed to cry for. But this story I'm not sure about.
A proof is a proof and when you have a good proof it's because it's prooven.
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amanduhh592

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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2006, 09:53:42 AM »
huh.... I think that one might be fake. Alexandra always said that she may be born german but she wa russian in her heart or something liek that. So shed want Russia to win.. i thjnk

Offline Maj. Jesse Cairns

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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2006, 12:10:53 PM »
Good day good folks at the Alexander Palace.
Major Jesse Carnes here.
I have a reply to the Forum Administrator, so please, I ask patience as I am only making an inquiry and am not "coming out with my guns blazing."   OK, mon ami?

The Forum Administrator said :
________________________________________
With the war approaching, the IF left the Finnish fjords on 6 July. President Poincare of France arrived 7 July for his State visit. Nicholas ordered General Mobilisation on 18 July, with the IF at Tsarskoe. War was declared 19 July.
_________________________________________

My question.  Could  you please cite to me your bibligraphic citations for your data . . . at least write to me personally [so as to avoid a scene] . . . sil vous plait?

According to some cursory research, I found that Russia ordered mobilisation on 29 July, and Germany did not declare War on Russia until 1 August.   Could Standardt have been fitted with guns after June 1914 and alleged event have occurred in the first days after War had been declared?   Just curious.    So, what was Standardt's status after June 1914?  :) ;D

Again, if you choose, you can write to me privately, because I would like to see your citations.  Admittedly, I chose 4 different InterNet sites concerning WW1 and compared their data.   Yes, the Internet is only a secondary source, and primary sources would be better and more reliable.

On all good scholarly terms ;

---Jesse
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MAJOR JESSE CARNES, BA, BS, MA
AEROAPACE EDUCATION SPECIALIST
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CADET PROGRAMMES / EMERGENCY SERVICES / AEROSPACE EDUCATION
NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS :  MAXWELL AIRFORCE-
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Offline Maj. Jesse Cairns

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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2006, 12:49:13 PM »
I have one more query for the Forum Administrator :

You said : "War was declared 19 July."

My research has shown that Germany declared War on Russia on 1 August.  I assume that you are using the OLD STYLE dating system.  But this we do know--Germany declared War on Russia first, and not vice-versa.  YES?  


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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2006, 03:18:46 PM »
The dates are "old style". The declaration of war stated in my post was Germany's against Russia.  My source was Spiridovitch, the Head of Secret Personal Security Police for the Imperial Family. His book "Les Dernieres Annees de la Cour de Tzarskoie Selo" Payot, Paris, Vol. 2 Ch. XIX pgs. 470-480. In those pages you will find a virtual day to day account of all events of that month.  In Spiridovitch, you will also find that Alexei slipped while climbing a ladder on board the Standart on July 1 (OS) and suffered greatly for days with a bleeding episode.  Also, you will read that the Standart was in the Black Sea in May/June, and while undergoing 18 days of repairs before departing for Finland July 1 OS, there were no guns put aboard.  Further, on departing Finland on 6 July, the Standart was accompanied by the torpedo boats "Dobrovoletz" "Emir Boukhara", "Finn" and "Moskvitianin".  Further, the weather was excellent. The trip lasted about five hours, without any stops, then the Standart met up with the yacht "Alexandria" in the harbor at Cronstadt, and the IF transferred over to the "Alexandria" and went directly to Peterhof. Cars drove them immediately to the AP upon landing at Peterhof.(cf: pg 471.)

Spiridovitch was in Finland and aboard the yachts with the IF.  The Imperial Family were never on board the Standart again after this trip, to my knowledge. They CERTAINLY were not on board the Standart again at all in 1914.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

Offline Vive_HIH_Aleksey

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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2006, 01:52:20 PM »
Quote
I found this one. Is it true or false?

While Alexei was at the front, he stayed at the military base at Stavka. Alexei's presence had a profound effect on the troops. He was a sign of hope for the future to these troops. He would accompany his father on inspections, and diplomatic functions. He did all this for around nine months, then something(This is only rumored, and has not been proven) may have split him and his father apart.

It is rumored that, one day in mid-summer 1915, Alexei, his Tutor Pierre Gilliard, The Tsar, and a General went into a military hospital. Upon their arrival they were greeted by a doctor. Nicholas then asked this doctor how the regiment was doing. The doctor told him that they were doing very poorly. Then Nicholas and the General were taken by the doctor into another room. While Gilliard, and Alexei waited for them to return, Alexei began to walk around the ward they were in. He came up to one soldier which had lost a leg, then he looked at this soldiers face. It was the face of a child. He looked at the medical record by this patients bed, and it said the year of birth was 1903. This patient was only one year older than Alexei. He immediately questioned his tutor about this. In response the tutor told him that he knows about it. Alexei was furious, and asked if there were anymore like this. Gilliard told him, "Yes." Then Alexei asked how many, the tutor looked at the door that Alexei's father went through, and replied, "I don't know." Alexei went to the door, and Gilliard was unable to stop him. When Alexei entered that room, a wave of horror hit him like a brick wall. In that room were between 200-300 children, with either bullet wounds, burns, or missing limbs. He was horrified, then Alexei's father realized he was there. When Nicholas reached Alexei, he told him not to over react. Alexei asked his father if he really did send these children into battle. Nicholas replied with something like, "Desperate times deserve desperate measures.". Alexei then said in extreme anger, "How long did you think that you could keep this from me." Then he stormed out of the building. That evening, Alexei and his tutor headed back to the palace.



I dont think its true... but whatev


I don't think this is true either but does anyone have any info nonetheless? Thanks!
Hatred – this is a disgusting feeling. Yes, there is sport gambling, there is a striving to win. But to hate someone – this is awful! I think, that first of all you have to learn to respect your rival. -- Evgeni Plushenko

Offline Maj. Jesse Cairns

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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2006, 01:24:54 PM »
Thank you Forum Administrator . . .  very kind of you   ;D
I apprecite it.

---jesse



Offline Tdora

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Re: Alexei Legends or Facts?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2006, 03:58:35 PM »
Just a passing query...

What are these Finnish fjords?
I spend several months in Finland as a student at the University in Helsinki. I travelled of course, and also checked a geographical atlas.
A fjord is a long narrow inlet of the sea between steep cliffs. The Baltic, bordered also by Sweden, and to the south by Denmark, does have considerable numbers of inlets, but the steep cliffs and ria depth characteristic of a fjord are absent. These belong to the Norwegian coast which faces the North Sea.
It is disconcerting, if not entirely surprising, that these translations, or terms of reference, are so vague...?
Acts of injustice done
Between the setting and rising sun
In history lie like bones, each one.

WH Auden: The Ascent of F.6