Author Topic: The Saxe-Meiningen family  (Read 153532 times)

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Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #180 on: June 29, 2010, 09:02:41 PM »
Charlotte and her sisters look the same to me when they were children and teens. Personally I think Sophie is the prettiest.

Offline Aliss_Kande

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #181 on: June 29, 2010, 10:25:03 PM »
Charlotte may have had a pretty face, but I have read many places that she was oddly, almost comically, proportioned.  She had a long torso and short legs, long arms and a rather large chest.  I believe that Vicky even commented that she gave the illusion of being tall while seated, even though she was only around 5 feet tall, and would look as if she was going to topple forward.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #182 on: June 30, 2010, 12:45:59 PM »
Yes. However she did have a seductive aura about her that Missy talked about, she appreciated that even though Charley the brat made her life hell for a time. Charley was also involved in the "smart set" in Berlin that made fun of the seriousness of the Prussian court (especially Dona her sister-in-law).

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #183 on: August 14, 2010, 06:36:15 PM »
Young Charlotte



 

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Offline DavidH

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #184 on: September 04, 2010, 09:48:18 AM »
Princess Charlotte hit the pages of the UK Guardian newspaper yesterday under a headline of 'Sex Parties, bloody duels and blackmail: life at the court of the last Emperor'.

"Its public image was one of prudery and Prussian punctiliousness, but a historical investigation into the sexual habits of the court of the last German emperor has revealed a previously unknown predilection for swinger-style parties and late-night orgies.

Using police files uncovered from the Prussian Secret State Archives in Berlin, historians have been able to reconstruct the erotic goings-on of a group of aristocrats and court officials, which started off as a sex party and ended in a series of bloody duels.

According to the Berlin historian Wolfgang Wippermann, a select group of Prussia's blue-bloods first met at the invitation of Princess Charlotte, the older sister of Kaiser Wilhelm II, at Jagdschloss Grunewald, a hunting lodge in the woods of western Berlin, in 1891.

The partygoers included the brother-in-law of the kaiser, his master of ceremonies, Leberecht von Kotze, a host of aristocrats and a foreign ministry state secretary.

The parties, details of which are revealed in Spiegel magazine, consisted of unbridled sex sessions, in which the participants drank and danced, as well as experimenting with a variety of different sexual positions.

Wippermann's research, which has culminated in the book Scandal in Hunting Lodge Grunewald, due to be published later this month, led him to a total of 246 letters, in which the experiments are outlined in detail.

The gatherings might have remained anonymous but for one of the partygoers, whose identity remains unknown – but who Wippermann suspects to be Charlotte herself – who the day after one of the escapades sent participants blackmail letters.

The letters included illustrations and descriptions of the events of the previous night, and threatened to reveal the identities of the participants.

Wippermann has no concrete proof, but believes that Charlotte, a chain-smoking lover of scandal who died after lengthy psychiatric treatment in 1919, may have even hosted the events with the sole purpose of entrapping her unwitting guests.

The attempts at blackmail exploded into a scandal of huge political proportions when news of the orgies reached high-ranking representatives of the Prussian court, as well as the emperor himself.

A heated debate in the Reichstag followed.

In the correspondence the whistle-blower, who graphologists say was certainly a woman, repeatedly takes a swipe at the Duchess of Hohenau, describing her as a "randy tart".

A celebrated horse rider, the duchess was married to the openly gay aristocrat Friedrich von Hohenau. Her love life was legendary and included liaisons with the future reichs chancellor Max von Baden, as well as Herbert von Bismarck, a state secretary in the foreign ministry.

The letter writer also unleashes her anger on Alide von Schrader, the wife of a master of ceremonies who enjoyed lesbian affairs, and Prince Aribert von Anhalt, an official for the first Olympic games, who is accused of having sex with other men.

After discovering his own master of ceremonies, Kotze, was deeply entangled in the affair, Kaiser Wilhelm had him imprisoned.

But Kotze was soon released because no arrest warrant had been issued and in his thirst for revenge began to search for the partygoers who had revealed his identity.

A series of duels between Kotze and other male partygoers followed. He was injured in one duel, receiving an Easter egg from the Kaiser as a get-well gesture, and then subsequently killed in another, when a bullet penetrated his intestine.

"I'm almost certain that Charlotte was responsible for this cabal," Tobias Bringmann, who has researched the case, told Spiegel. "What is needed now is to get a graphologist to compare her correspondence with that of the blackmailer."

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #185 on: September 04, 2010, 11:04:15 AM »
Hi,

Poor old Charlotte - she doesn't come across as a favourable person in history, does she?
Everybody seems to have detested her;  but maybe she was a detestable person!!

But, Berlin was and is a liberal city as far as sex and drugs and perversion is concerned, so maybe all this is true and was kept 'under wraps' for a century!!!

Larry

Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #186 on: September 05, 2010, 06:46:21 PM »
Yes. That was the reason why Charley detested Dona and all that she represented. She knew her brother much better...

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #187 on: September 07, 2010, 03:26:11 PM »
Yes. That was the reason why Charley detested Dona and all that she represented. She knew her brother much better...

 ???  Charly detested Dona because Berlin was an avant garde city? Knew her brother better than what?
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Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #188 on: September 07, 2010, 03:29:48 PM »
Hi,

Poor old Charlotte - she doesn't come across as a favourable person in history, does she?
Everybody seems to have detested her;  but maybe she was a detestable person!!

But, Berlin was and is a liberal city as far as sex and drugs and perversion is concerned, so maybe all this is true and was kept 'under wraps' for a century!!!

Larry

If Charlotte was a blackmailer, history would have reason to place her in an unfavorable position. However, scandalous and active sexual behavior amongst royals and the courts of europe were not uncommon. That this story has been unearthed simply verifies some lurid details to behaviors considered to have been pretty much commonplace. This type of "news" is for those who get some level of titilation from sex stories.
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Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #189 on: September 07, 2010, 03:32:46 PM »
Also, if the Reichstag engage in "heated debate" over the goings-on amongst the group of revelers, the episodes were not secret at all and probably part of the daily news of the time. That fact that the story has re-emerged 110 years later underscores the fact that 'sex sells'.  ;)
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Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #190 on: September 07, 2010, 04:03:45 PM »
Princess Charlotte hit the pages of the UK Guardian newspaper yesterday under a headline of 'Sex Parties, bloody duels and blackmail: life at the court of the last Emperor'.
[...]
In the correspondence the whistle-blower, who graphologists say was certainly a woman, repeatedly takes a swipe at the Duchess of Hohenau, describing her as a "randy tart".

Geiles Luder or not, Charlotte Gräfin von Hohenau née von der Decken was NOT a duchess, but Countess of Hohenau. And her husband was Charlotte of Meiningen's morganatic first cousin.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 04:11:04 PM by Fyodor Petrovich »

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #191 on: September 08, 2010, 10:04:25 AM »
Also, if the Reichstag engage in "heated debate" over the goings-on amongst the group of revelers, the episodes were not secret at all and probably part of the daily news of the time. That fact that the story has re-emerged 110 years later underscores the fact that 'sex sells'.  ;)

There is a good bit about the scandal in John Rohl's book (volume 2, I believe) on Kaiser Wilhelm. I don't think it goes into the lurid details but does discuss the scandal from a political point of view and the widespread belief that Charlotte was behind the mysterious letters that were sent to people. This is apparently what led to her big break with her brother and her husband's military reassignment away from Berlin.
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Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #192 on: September 08, 2010, 10:11:24 AM »
Charlotte was always a mistress of intrigue and poses herself as the fashionable social hostess of the "fast set" in Berlin. That was the reason why she disliked Dona who represented the traditional hansfrau, and made fun of her at her own parties. Vicky greatly distrusted her eldest daughter (lying and untruthful) and always hatching plots (one of them getting her cousin Missy married in Romania, then back stabbed her).

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #193 on: September 08, 2010, 11:28:55 AM »
Also, if the Reichstag engage in "heated debate" over the goings-on amongst the group of revelers, the episodes were not secret at all and probably part of the daily news of the time. That fact that the story has re-emerged 110 years later underscores the fact that 'sex sells'.  ;)

There is a good bit about the scandal in John Rohl's book (volume 2, I believe) on Kaiser Wilhelm. I don't think it goes into the lurid details but does discuss the scandal from a political point of view and the widespread belief that Charlotte was behind the mysterious letters that were sent to people. This is apparently what led to her big break with her brother and her husband's military reassignment away from Berlin.

thanks, and yes, it strikes me that the historical "value" of the episode is its effect on the politics of the day and the changed lives that may have ulitmately affected policy or other issues. The newly exposed (no pun intended  ;) information really doesn't add or substract from what we know of the parties' personalites...just gives spice to those who love the dirt, imho.
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Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Saxe-Meiningen family
« Reply #194 on: September 08, 2010, 11:50:33 AM »
It shows the length that Charley was involved in these things. Vicky was right to condemn her daughter as a "trouble-maker".