Archduke Franz Ferdinand, Countess Sophie and their family

[beladona]

Photos of Sophie from Bildarchiv Austria (Österreichischen Nationalbibliothek)







Sophie with her sister Octavia:


Sophie with her husband:

[Princess of Cupertino]

Are you quite sure?

I understood that the "Act of Renunciation", which took place on June 28th (how ironic!) 1900 in the throne room of the Hofburg in the presence of over one hundred people, including 15 Archdukes, the chief ministers of Austria and Hungary, Governors of various provinces, church dignitaries, high officials etc was irrevocable and began with the words: "We bind ourselves with Our word NEVER to attempt to nullify Our present declaration..." thus I was under the impression that it would have been legally impossible to alter the declaration in any way. Needless to say, I stand open to correction!

I think you're right. From what I read, the "Act of Renunciation" was a compromise between FJ and FF - FJ allows FF to marry Sophie and in turn FF promiises to never crown her.

[Eurohistory]

Not just a compromise but a contract signed in front of the Emperor and several other Archdukes. Franz Ferdinand would have faced hell on Earth if once an Emperor he had back pedaled on his signing of this document.

Arturo Beéche

[Greenowl]

Thank you for that information, which agrees totally with my understanding of the matter.

Cheers,
GREENOWL

[britt.25]

The pictures are wonderful...Sophie was very nice and her dark look makes her very attractive...Concerning the painting of Franz Ferdinand' s and Sophies children as well as the painting with father and daughter, where does it come from? Is there a bigger version anywhere? It's wonderful and new to me! I never saw those paintings before...

[Greenowl]

Hellp Britt 25!

With regard to your question: the portrait of Archduke Franz-Ferdinand and his daughter was painted by the artist Frantisek Dvorak and hangs in the Archduke's former private apartments in the Castle of Konopiste.

[Mari]

Thank you for all the information and photographs. Tragic that the children should have ended up in captivity...

[britt.25]

Do you mean that they were in KZs? Yes, but they survived, but the consequences let them die quite early (int he fourties and fifties) It's a pity. Only the daughter became quite old!

[Norbert]

Are you quite sure?

I understood that the "Act of Renunciation", which took place on June 28th (how ironic!) 1900 in the throne room of the Hofburg in the presence of over one hundred people, including 15 Archdukes, the chief ministers of Austria and Hungary, Governors of various provinces, church dignitaries, high officials etc was irrevocable and began with the words: "We bind ourselves with Our word NEVER to attempt to nullify Our present declaration..." thus I was under the impression that it would have been legally impossible to alter the declaration in any way. Needless to say, I stand open to correction!

Consider the character of FF. I am certain that such a strong charactr would have asked the Pope to recognise that the "Renunciation" was done under duress and Sophie would have become Empress by his side.

[Greenowl]

I cannot imagine that the pope had all that much influence on Austrian affairs in the early 20th century and even if he had agreed, it could have led to problems in, for example, the Hungarian part of the Empire, where such a change might have been viewed as a heaven-sent excuse to break away and become independent (the same could apply to any of the other parts of the Empire). The question of duress is also tricky, as in point of fact Emperor Franz-Joseph made a HUGE concession to Archduke Franz-Ferdinand, as other members of the family who married "below their station" lost everything. Take the case of Franz-Ferdinand's youngest brother, Archduke Ferdinand-Karl. When he married Bertha Czuber in 1911 he was excluded from the dynasty, lost all his titles, ranks, privileges, honours, orders and decorations, and the couple were officially banished from Vienna. Archduke Franz-Ferdinand was one of his fiercest opponents (which seems most ironic in view of his own 'unequal' marriage). Only the elderly Emperor mitigated the harsh punishment by authorizing a small annual allowance from the Habsburg Family Fund. Ferdinand Karl then became known as plain "Mr. Berg", a pseudonym sometimes used by his father Karl-Ludwig. After the assassination at Sarajevo in June 1914 Ferdinand-Karl Berg was granted a special dispensation to travel to Austria to attend his brother's funeral at Schloß Artstetten. He died in Munich on 12th March, 1915 aged 47 years and was buried at the cemetery at Untermais near Merano. Archduke Johann/Johann Orth is another example.

Had Franz-Ferdinand survived to ascend the throne I have no doubt that Sophie would have been treated with all due respect (as she was treated by Kaiser Wilhelm II) but as to whether Franz-Ferdinand would have attempted to change the status quo is a moot point. What seems more likely (at least in my opinion) is that he would have tried to do something to ensure that his sons obtained an appropriate title/position...

[Norbert]

Sadly we will never know....and now the Habsburgs are just a memory

[Norbert]

FF would not have allowed Sophie not to take her place by his side and recognise their issue as his heirs. It's just a matter of how he would do it....what about making her a sovereign princess and then she would be of equal status OR being adopted by Royal or Princely House. Somehow he would have done it....perhaps as Emperor he would just declare the "renunciation" void , crown her Empress  and damn the consequences. Certainly  the Kaiser and most European powers would have recognised her. As regards the Empire, he was a federalist and the promised devolution of power from Vienna under his Sceptre would have given him the support he needed.

[Greenowl]

Despite the morganatic oath signed in 1900, the matter of the succession was never finally settled. The Apostolic Kingdom of Hungary was not bound by Habsburg Family Law and thus did not recognize the morganatic contract where children and heirs were concerned. Technically, Franz-Ferdinand's eldest son, Maximilian, could have been his successor to the crown of St. Stephan – not Karl, who had been nominated as Thronfolger upon Franz Ferdinand's eventual death. The integrity of the Empire was therefore in jeopardy should Hungarian nationalists raise Maximilian of Hohenberg to the throne of Hungary while Archduke Karl was ascending the throne of Austria. Kaiser Wilhelm II approached Franz-Ferdinand and Sophie with the idea that Maximilian should become Großherzog of Lothringen, Lothringen/Lorraine then being a part of Germany, annexed from France following the Franco-Prussian War of 1870. This would reactivate a dead title in the Habsburg-Lothringen list of claims, and at the the same time solve the problem regarding Hungary. The couple approved the plan. However, following the tragic events at Sarajevo, the coronation of Maximilian as the new Großherzog of Lothringen became a moot point. One of Franz Ferdinand's sisters attempted to revive the possibility by visiting Kaiser Wilhelm in 1917. But by then Wilhelm II was no longer interested in entertaining such suggestions; Lothringen/Lorraine was destined for full incorporation into the German Empire, with Wilhelm himself taking the title of Großherzog. The Armistice of 1918 prevented that and the Treaty of Versailles returned Lothringen/Lorraine to France along with Alsace. The interest in Maximilian NOT becoming Apostolic King of Hungary would seem to indicate that Archduke Franz-Ferdinand did not want the break-up of the Empire and seemed happy enough for Karl to be his successor. He also appeared to be genuinely fond of his nephew and always spoke positively about him. The photos of Franz-Ferdinand at Karl and Zita's wedding are among the few that I know of in which Franz-Ferdinand is smiling. As the "Act of Renunciation" began with the words: "We bind ourselves with Our word NEVER to attempt to nullify Our present declaration..." I am under the impression that it would have been legally impossible to alter the declaration in any way, even on the part of an Emperor, and if he had tried to do so, it would have led to all sorts of problems, unless he had managed to "calm" the various national groups beforehand by means of his federal system. Obviously we will never know what would have happened had the tragic events of June 28th. 1914 not taken place.

[Norbert]

many thanks for your excellent ideas, I think the Hungarian question on morganatic marriages has been raised before.. Personally i still think that considering the strong personality of FF,  he would have moved heaven and earth to make Sophie his Empress and pass the throne to his own children. I can't see Karl protesting too much to have such a burden removed from his shoulders. Although Austria would have been against him, the promised devolution of power to the various crownlands would I think have guaranteed his support.

[Alexandre64]

the Family:


Konopischt castle: