Archduke Franz Ferdinand, Countess Sophie and their family

[Janet Ashton]

Franz Josef's opposition to Lueger as mayor is something that seems to throw a good light on the old man. Was he worried by the demagoguery of the Christian Socials (with Lueger being sometimes plus royal que le roi, and revelling in his own seeming greater popularity), or did he dislike the apparently divisive nature of KL's programme and methods?

I think it might be easy to regard Franz Josef as an old fool unwilling to change and Franz Ferdinand as a radical force who was destroyed by the establishment, just because he made an unacceptable marriage and had links to this one, single bourgeois politician (Lueger), but this sort of ignores the extremely conservative aims of Franz Ferdinand's own politics, and the rather dangerous destabilising methods he himself contemplated for bringing about the changes he wanted. Boyer does not give the impression of liking him; he sees him as an interfering autocrat who after Lueger's death became over-influential in the party.

[Greenowl]

I think that Franz Joseph's opposition to Lueger as mayor was partly due to the latter's programme and methods but he was also jealous of Lueger's massive popularity.

I assume that Franz Ferdinand's anti-Hungarian policies were directly influenced by Lueger but despite this, I have always believed that the changes he proposed might just have saved the empire, as it was by then going downhill at an alarming rate and had been in decline since the 1860s (or even before).

[Janet Ashton]

I assume that Franz Ferdinand's anti-Hungarian policies were directly influenced by Lueger but despite this, I have always believed that the changes he proposed might just have saved the empire, as it was by then going downhill at an alarming rate and had been in decline since the 1860s (or even before).

I wonder, though whether rather than either influence the other FF and Lueger simply had the same view of Hungary as disloyal to the monarchy and Empire?

It does seem that by about 1912 there were a lot of people out there who saw Franz Ferdinand's succession as the only hope for the empire - but, to me, that says a great deal about how many other plans and attempts to reform the empire politically or administratively had failed completely and reached a sort of impasse, rather than showing that somehow nothing had been tried until FF came along, which is the impression I think some have. Some of these plans - like the suffrage reforms of 1907 - were backed by the old Emperor and opposed by his Heir; just as Franz Ferdinand also opposed some of the last attempted Czech-German language compromises in Bohemia for fear of what they might do to the position of the Crown. By 1912 or so there is Franz Ferdinand implying that he will simply break the constitution apart by FORCE in order to remake it with himself and the dynasty at the centre - and I personally can't see how this could have succeeded in engendering anything but civil war - even assuming he had done it, and not just, in the end, carried on fudging things as they had done for generations.

Oh well...:-(

[grandduchessella]

The wedding of Max Hohenberg:




The Habsburg's present were all close relations: ADss Marie Josepha (widow of their uncle Otto), ADss Marie Theresa (their stepgrandmother), ADss Elisabeth (their aunt) and her husband and ADss Margarethe (their aunt) and her husband.

[Yelena Aleksandrovna]

Will this do?  Download for full size.

I hadn't checked this thread for a while and then I found a very nice surprise!! Thank you very, very, very much Dru, the size and quality are the best that I've ever seen!! ;-)

[Dru]

Will this do?  Download for full size.

I hadn't checked this thread for a while and then I found a very nice surprise!! Thank you very, very, very much Dru, the size and quality are the best that I've ever seen!! ;-)

You are very welcome!  I have a few other well-known photos of Princess Sophie in good size and quality--sadly, they are hard to come by, so if you would like to have them as well, feel free to message me

[Dru]

Franz Ferdinand and Sophie with their son Max.

[Kalafrana]

Since FF is in naval uniform and threw is a harbour in the background,  this was obviously taken  on a naval occasion, perhaps in Trieste, but do you have any more details?

Ann

[Dru]

Since FF is in naval uniform and threw is a harbour in the background,  this was obviously taken  on a naval occasion, perhaps in Trieste, but do you have any more details?

Ann

Unfortunately, I don't have any knowledge of when or where the photo was taken, but if I come across any information, I will let you know

[Kalafrana]

Thanks.

Mild piece of guesswork. Max was born in 1902, so was 12 when his parents were killed. He doesn't look much younger than 12 in this picture, so we are probably talking 1913-14. He is in white with what was in British naval parlance a sennit hat, so we are talking warm weather, though FF is in blues. I imagine the K-u-K Navy had white uniforms for the summer, given that they were mostly in the Adriatic and Mediterranean, but went in and out of them on particular dates rather than according to the weather. I seem to remember that the RAF in Malta in the 1970s went from blue to khaki drill on 1 May and back to blue on 1 October. My guess is a warm day in April, so Max is keeping cool in white, but his father is constrained by dress regulations and must wear blue.

April 1913 is my educated guess, and possibly at Pola.

Ann

[Dru]

Max and Ernst of Hohenberg.

[Dru]

Franz Ferdinand and Sophie with "Little Sophie" and Max.  Anyone know whose hand the Duchess is shaking?

[Kalafrana]

The caption says 'mi familie', so I wonder whether Ernst is there as well. There is a boy-sized leg visible behind FF!

Ann

[Превед]

The caption says 'mi familie', so I wonder whether Ernst is there as well.

mit Familie = with family, с семьей.
I never thought of how mit is cognate with English mid, i.e. between, while Russian c must be cognate with Romance con!

There is a boy-sized leg visible behind FF!

Lol, true, are you Sherlock Holmes or Erast Fandorin!?

Anyone know whose hand the Duchess is shaking?

The whitehaired, old man has an amputated leg, doesn't he? So he's probably an old veteran or invalid and she is probably not shaking his hand, but handing him alms. In those days I don't think a man would shake a lady's hand, he would kiss it, whatever his social standing. A handshake was only done between socially equal men, I think, so when a monarch shook the hand of the soldier he was decorating with a medal or order this was "most condescending" in the positive sense!

[Kalafrana]

The last time Austrian troops saw action before 1914 was in the Austro-Prussian War of 1866, so this veteran must have been nudging 70, if not older.

Ann