Author Topic: Why do the people love Sissi??????  (Read 38497 times)

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Eugenie_of_Montijo

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2006, 06:45:01 PM »
I understand your points of wiew...Prince Lieven, Gdella, Nelly. In fact, I don´t like the image of Sissi forever young and always a legendary beauty, as a fairy queen ill-treated by her in-laws, specially the proverbial wicked mother-in-law. It´s not easy for me to explain in english, but I will try...and sorry for my mistakes! ;)

1.-A young  girl of fifteen raised up so far away from a court with strict etiquette as was the vienese court never should be married to an powerful emperor.  Franz Joseph was madly in love with Elisabeth, but I believe that he never thought that his unexpected bride could not managed well the situation.

2.-I think that the struggle between Elisabeth and Sophia proves that the young empress was too inmature and unexperienced. Sophia was a pretty bavarian princess married against her will with Franz Karl, but when she convinced herself that the marriage was not a choice but a duty, she pronounced the famous words "I am determined to be happy, and I will be". I think that Sophia could provides a great support to her niece and daughter in law, but Sissi was so afraid of her aunt and mother in law that they never could had a benefit relationship.

3.-It was said that sexual relationship between Franz Joseph and Sissi was disastrous since the bad experience of the bride in the first nights after the marriage. I suppose it was a shock for a very young woman so naive. If a few years later he infected her with a veneral dissease, I think the question made a severe emotional damage to Elisabeth.

4.-A complicated point were the children. At the first, Elisabeth tried to raise up the children, but when the daughter Sophie died in Hungary, she shamed herself for this because her mother in law had advised her that it was not good idea to take the little Sophie and the little Gisela far away from home.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2006, 01:02:09 AM »
I think people change because of their circumstances. I don't think Sisi was cold at all. I agree that she should not have been made empress, but it was the emperor's choice not hers to make.

Sisi was a wonderful child and was blessed with being truthful and modesty (being raised in the country). When she married Franz Josef she was not a complicated girl at all. However she quickly found out how hard and cruel a court can be. Without friends or allies ( even her mother-in-law, her full Aunt was jealous of her and tend to treat her as a child), Sisi was driven more and more into herself. Without proper education, she could hardly be included in politics. Her only path would be a good mother and wife. Even her children were denied her, and as they became more attached to Archduchess Sophie, they became more and more emotionally exiled from their mother. The birth of Valarie proved how much love the other two could have recieved had she been given a chance. It was a tragedy on both sides.

Sisi became a more self-centered woman after her flight and self exile. She became convinced that she won over her husband because of her beauty and sought to retain it by any means. She in fact became a victim and slave to her image, simply because people began to expect it. In the end even that gave her no joy at all.

I always think that she was a victim and should be felt sorry than blamed. It would have been much better had she not married Franz Josef.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2006, 01:15:32 AM »
Quote
I am no fan of Sisi either.  

Sisi neglected her elder children.  Yes, Sophie, Gisela and Rudolf were taken away from her by her mother in law but after her mother in law died, she did not step in to fill the gap.  She cared little about them.  

Some books said that Sisi thought Gisela "killed" her Sophie b/c Gisela passed measles to her.  Strong Gisela lived while Sophie died.  I wouldn't say Sisi hated Gisela but they definitely were not close.  

Sisi did not have a sense of duty.  I think she traveled to England a few times to ride and hunt.  More than once, QV invited her for a banquet and she always refused to attend, which annoyed both QV and FJ.  

She was rather wasteful too.  She felt in love with Corfu and convinced FJ to build her a palace there.  Afterwards, she got bored with Corfu and rarely went back to there.  She made various expensive trips to England, Ireland and Madeira for pleasure.
 
I think in addition to her beauty, part of the reason why she is so popular is the tragedy that surrounds her.  However, I think part of her tragedy was created by herself and the way she viewed life.  


Agree with you, with GDElla and Pr.Lieven...

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2006, 01:19:28 AM »
This is not a contest nor a vote....it would be interesting to hear why you think a particular way about Sisi.  :-/

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2006, 01:23:58 AM »
Sisi did not raised to be a royal. She was neglected in her education and deportment. Also she did not asked to be Empress...she was simply selected. Both Franz Josef and Archduchess Sophie knew she was not empress material, but they simply turn a blind eye to reality.  :(

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2006, 07:33:54 AM »
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This is not a contest nor a vote....it would be interesting to hear why you think a particular way about Sisi.  :-/


Do we vote here?...


Agneschen

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2006, 08:19:10 AM »
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Why do the people love Sissi?

Because of Romy Schneider's films!  8)



I think they did contribute to the Sisi myth & made her widely popular among the masses. For, historically inacurate & wishy washy though they were, who has not seen them ? I remember watching them as a child (a recurrent Christmas program here) & dreaming afterwards I would become a princess myself one day.
By all accounts, during her lifetime Sisi seems to have possessed some kind of very peculiar aura which attracted those around her. After her death, she was remembered for her ethereal beauty, her tragic end & somewhat mysterious personality.
However I must join the ranks of the non-Sisi fans of the forum. I am very interested in the Wittelsbach family & have read a lot about Elisabeth. She has always striken me as a rebellious, selfish & antipathetic character.
True she was forced at the tender age of 15 into matrimony but she was not always 15 & yet she behaved like a spoilt, touchy little girl for the rest of her life. True she had an intrusive (though a well meaning one IMO) mother-in-law but she herself was no pattern of empathy & help where her own daughter-in-law Stéphanie who was a mere 16 when she married the instable (to say the least) Rudolf was concerned. True her children as toddlers were taken away from her but after many an argument (let us not forget her famous ultimatum to Franz Josef on the subject) they were handed back to her care. She did not seem to make the most of this new state of things & more or less ignored them. When Rudolf as an adult was on the verge of a serious mental breakdown all that preoccuped her was that, once become Emperor, he might behave unfairly to his sister Valérie (herself literally smothered under their mother's overbearing love).
True she was unhappy at heart & probably depressive but she never tried to overcome that. Instead she chose to flee from her husband & adopted country when she could have found some solace at least in doing her duty. She was not the only princess to have been forced into a loveless marriage at a very young age - so was Queen Marie Henriette of Belgium, Sisi's own sister Marie and many, many others. I might add that Sisi was undoutedly loved by her husband which was probably not the case for many of her contemporaries.
Maybe she was too modern for her time. Her republican leanings & yearning for a free independant life are strikingly modern. Fate had made an Empress of her. She made the most of absolutely all the advantages her position as such could bring her but staunchly refused to assume the obligations that went with it. The meaning of the word "duty" she refused to learn.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2006, 08:37:01 AM »
Thanks for your very balanced opinion. Sisi was definitely no saint, but she was neither the cold and selfish bitch who only cares about her own vanity.

Franz Josef did love her but took no interest in her. After the marriage he did go occationaly back to his causal mistresses for fun. It was the discovery that he had inflicted on her purity that accalate her breakdown. Sisi was too sensative and was in floods of tears during the early years of marriage. After her return, Sisi used her absences to blackmail her husband into hetting her own way. I would not catagorize that as selfish but surival instinct. It was a pity that Sisi failed to see that in doing so she abandon her "duty". But again did the court cared a fig about her ?

Sisi was capable of love and the service she did for Hungary was still remembered there. She loved the Hungarians who loved her and welcomed her while the Bohemian and Austrian nobles sided with Archduchess Sophie. She rewarded the Hungarians and cold-shouldered those who (she felt) rejected her.

Of her children, Rudolf was the one she felt the most like her, yet because of the influence of Archduchess Sophie, Sisi felt cannot be wholly hers (like Valerie). Yet they had a strange relationship. Sisi would dress especially fine when Rudolf called. Tragically they cannot break the ice. After Rudolf's death, she blamed herself for not brave enough to care more for her son..

frederika

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2006, 09:33:08 AM »
I dont understand why people think she was beautifle.
Pretty yes but not beautifle.  I dont think queen Maria of Romania was beautifle either.

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2006, 10:30:20 AM »
Quote
2.-I think that the struggle between Elisabeth and Sophia proves that the young empress was too inmature and unexperienced. Sophia was a pretty bavarian princess married against her will with Franz Karl, but when she convinced herself that the marriage was not a choice but a duty, she pronounced the famous words "I am determined to be happy, and I will be". I think that Sophia could provides a great support to her niece and daughter in law, but Sissi was so afraid of her aunt and mother in law that they never could had a benefit relationship.

 


Good point. I think Franz Josef wasn't really worried about how Sisi would cope, since his own mother, thrown into quite a smiliar situation, had coped very well indeed.

Eric Lowe said:
Quote
she was neither the cold and selfish pregnant dog who only cares about her own vanity.  


No one has said she was. ;)
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-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2006, 11:01:26 AM »
I referred to her looks as cold rather than her personality. I never sense the warmth that you see in many royals--Empress Eugenie for example. She strikes me as lovely but remote in her portraits and photos.

I do think she was vain however--the obsessive dieting and refusal to be photographed once she had lost the first bloom of her looks--strikes me as such. Queen Alexandra, another famous beauty, may have had a number of photos retouched but she also was photographed many times in public where she looked her age and was still lovely, if not the fresh-faced beauty of yesteryear.
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Offline royal_netherlands

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2006, 11:41:31 AM »
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I referred to her looks as cold rather than her personality. I never sense the warmth that you see in many royals--Empress Eugenie for example. She strikes me as lovely but remote in her portraits and photos.

I do think she was vain however--the obsessive dieting and refusal to be photographed once she had lost the first bloom of her looks--strikes me as such. Queen Alexandra, another famous beauty, may have had a number of photos retouched but she also was photographed many times in public where she looked her age and was still lovely, if not the fresh-faced beauty of yesteryear.


Well I have to agrey whit you on this one I think :-/

kmerov

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2006, 01:31:49 PM »
She is not my favorit royal, but I do feel a bit sorry for her
Her personality wasn't ment for, or shaped to be the Austrian Empress, and the result was a very unhappy woman, who I feel was to intelligent  just to accept her fate, because the majority of other Princesses did. She wasn't just a vain person, but a very unhappy person, caught in a position that didn't fullfil her or give her joy, forced on her by others. Her self-starvation and other "strange behaviour" tells me of a person with deep psychological problems, not in balance with her self, so that makes me feel sorry for her.
She did have some selfish behaviour and neglected her role as Empress, but I can't say that I dislike her.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2006, 05:11:35 AM »
I don't think Sisi was a vain person at all. If you notice how casual she was in her early years and her complete disregard for her skin when she go riding (which resulted in her weather-beaten skin). She kept her looks because she had very little self-esteem. Sis believe people liked her because of her legendary beauty, and it did created a stirr in her crowning years. even when State visits, people asked to see this legendary beauty and poor Sisi had to put on a performance. She hardly open her mouth when she spoke because of a comment by Archduchess Sophie because of her yellow teeth. She continue to do that even after her teeth was supposed to be fixed. Yes she was a figure of pity than dislike (at least I thought so).  :(

La_Bella_Regina

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Re: Why do the people love Sissi??????
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2006, 06:16:14 AM »
I am sorry, but I do not like Sisi either. She neglected Gisela and Stephanie, and did not have a very good sense of duty at all.  I agree with the Vicky thing, too.  :-[