The Paleys

[Sasha_18]

where in the world did jean noel liaut hear that Vladimir was spoiled?  i just find it ridiculous, i've read a lot of his poetry and i find it frankly stupid that anyone would say Vladimir was spoiled, his poems are very humble imo and showing of a personality that is the opposite of arrogant.

[Svetabel]

where in the world did jean noel liaut hear that Vladimir was spoiled? 

He was spoilt as a child,what's wrong with it? That doesn't mean he was a nasty boy or a digusting young man. Many children, especially those born of a great love of the parents, are spoilt. GDss Maria Pavlovna in her memoirs admitted that her half-brother was very charming and spoilt.

[Maria_Pavlovna]

I wonder was Vladimir close to Maria Pavlona jr?

His mother Princess Paley, seems like Maria, but disliked Dmitri.

[Svetabel]

I wonder was Vladimir close to Maria Pavlona jr?

His mother Princess Paley, seems like Maria, but disliked Dmitri.

You know I don't have an impression that Olga Paley liked Maria, she mentions step-daughter only once in her memoirs and somewhat passing reference. Maria with her conflicting character was not an easy daughter and step-daughter, but she obviously really was fascinated with Vladimir and his talent.

[Sasha_18]

where in the world did jean noel liaut hear that Vladimir was spoiled? 

He was spoilt as a child,what's wrong with it? That doesn't mean he was a nasty boy or a digusting young man. Many children, especially those born of a great love of the parents, are spoilt. GDss Maria Pavlovna in her memoirs admitted that her half-brother was very charming and spoilt.

oh i see, spoiled as a little boy hahh i quite overreacted there...thank you svetabel

[Maria_Pavlovna]

I wonder was Vladimir close to Maria Pavlona jr?

His mother Princess Paley, seems like Maria, but disliked Dmitri.

You know I don't have an impression that Olga Paley liked Maria, she mentions step-daughter only once in her memoirs and somewhat passing reference. Maria with her conflicting character was not an easy daughter and step-daughter, but she obviously really was fascinated with Vladimir and his talent.

 I never read Olga's memoirs, ok.
also Maria was a self centered person to me, and only loved her brother.

[Kalafrana]

Of course, there was a distinct age gap between Paul Alexandrovich's two families, and the elder two can have seen very little of the younger three before their father returned to Russia. Further, it would only be human if Maria Pavlovna, having lost her mother before she could remember her, and then been effectively abandoned by her father, rather resented his second family, especially if they were spoilt.

[Sara Araújo]

where in the world did jean noel liaut hear that Vladimir was spoiled?  i just find it ridiculous, i've read a lot of his poetry and i find it frankly stupid that anyone would say Vladimir was spoiled, his poems are very humble imo and showing of a personality that is the opposite of arrogant.

He mentions it on Natalie's biography. I don't have the exact quote with me right now because I've borrowed the book, but as soon as I get it I'll post it. 

I think Maria Pavlovna was very close to the second family. She used to spent two weeks with them in Paris, but there is no mention if her brother Dmitri would join her, and she seemed to get along with them very well. I've even saved a couple of quotes about it. I thought they were funny! 

"My father and stepmother lived a quiet life as common citizens, doing what they wanted to do. (...) It was for me great fun to forget etiquette for two to three weeks while I was on vacation with them. It was also a joy to belong to that wonderful family from time to time because they were truly happy."

"When I arrived for dinner, the children were impatient. (...) Next to my father was an empty chair, belonging to his wife, and it would remain so for most of the meal. My stepmother was never able to be ready on time. My father ended up accepting it. (...) The dinner proceed. The girls, siting on both sides of their governess, were pretending to be wise men. Volodia, my half-brother, was making much noise and countless questions. It was useless to make a conversion or to impose silence."

[Sasha_18]

I wonder was Vladimir close to Maria Pavlona jr?

His mother Princess Paley, seems like Maria, but disliked Dmitri.

dmitri didn't like her either, i have read his letters to tsar nicholas about not being sorry he never sees her or her family...

[Maria_Pavlovna]

really? intersting. where did you find his letters about Princess Paley and her family?

[Sara Araújo]

I wonder was Vladimir close to Maria Pavlona jr?

His mother Princess Paley, seems like Maria, but disliked Dmitri.

dmitri didn't like her either, i have read his letters to tsar nicholas about not being sorry he never sees her or her family...

It would be interesting to read those letters... I never felt there was any special animosity between them. I actually think Dmitri thought very well of her. At least it was the impression I got from this part of her memoirs:

During our stay at Mohileff the Grand Duke Dimitri, who was on duty with the Emperor, often came to lunch and. dine with us. Very well informed about war matters and what was in progress at the headquarters of the General Staff, endowed with remarkable intelligence and with the faculty of grasping facts and drawing from them the necessary conclusion, this young man of twenty-five was a mature man and a shrewd observer. He also recognised the imminent danger which the country was running, and he had conversations on the subject more than once with the Emperor . and with his own father. I remember that one day at Mohileff, at tea time, he said to me:

"Ah, mamotchka (a tender diminutive of mama), if only you knew what is going to happen!"

[Sasha_18]

I wonder was Vladimir close to Maria Pavlona jr?

His mother Princess Paley, seems like Maria, but disliked Dmitri.

dmitri didn't like her either, i have read his letters to tsar nicholas about not being sorry he never sees her or her family...

It would be interesting to read those letters... I never felt there was any special animosity between them. I actually think Dmitri thought very well of her. At least it was the impression I got from this part of her memoirs:

During our stay at Mohileff the Grand Duke Dimitri, who was on duty with the Emperor, often came to lunch and. dine with us. Very well informed about war matters and what was in progress at the headquarters of the General Staff, endowed with remarkable intelligence and with the faculty of grasping facts and drawing from them the necessary conclusion, this young man of twenty-five was a mature man and a shrewd observer. He also recognised the imminent danger which the country was running, and he had conversations on the subject more than once with the Emperor . and with his own father. I remember that one day at Mohileff, at tea time, he said to me:

"Ah, mamotchka (a tender diminutive of mama), if only you knew what is going to happen!"

what is funny to me is that i read this too, and this is why when i read his letter to nicholas i was surprised. if i recall right he says he never sees the paleys anymore and that's fine with him, and something about olga and putting up with the hohenfelzens...although i have also read that n&a were not close with the hohenfelzens...this might be a case of dmitri playing up certain opinions to get on one side of the tsar...not to be disrespectful !

[Sara Araújo]

It could be! 

But I also have another theory... couldn't Princess Paley have exaggerated the depth of her relationship with Dmitri? Or maybe that he would act kindly towards his stepmother in order to some sort of moral obligation to his father? 

[Sasha_18]

it could certainly be a combination of all these things...it was the court after all, and manners before feelings to your face! olga ilked to play up her relationship to the tsarina as well i've noticed. perhaps the paleys felt like outsiders, because so many disapproved of their marriage, and were simply trying to fit in

[Sitka]

My gosh. I had no idea Vladimir was considered spoiled and such, let alone unpleasant to others outside his family. Thank you for that new information!

I know this is a morbid question to ask but, is there any surviving photographs of his corpse. It seems there are photos of the others but I never came across a post mortem of Prince Paley. Does anyone know any information regarding this?

I don't think there is one taken of him even though pictures of others were taken.