Henry & Alice, Duke & Duchess of Gloucester

[Constantinople]

I just rececked and I think they were first cousins.

[Marie-Mathilde]

I've often wondered about the Duke of Gloucester and his sister, Princess Mary. They are, in my opinion, the most overlooked of GV's children.

Having read "Letters from a Prince" (the collection of letters that Henry's brother, the Duke of Windsor, sent to his mistress Freda Dudley Ward when he was Prince of Wales, around 1918 - 1921) I got the impression that Edward was very fond of his brothers Henry and George. However I also remember reading in Sarah Bradford's bio on George VI that Edward and Wallis were very fond of jokes at Henry's expence, but the bio suggests he had a better relationship with George VI and was devoted to him. Could anyone shed any light on his relationship with the two Kings? Also, was he close to his brother Prince George, Duke of Kent? I ask this because they were the closest in age and it seemed that around 1920 Edward and Albert were paired up and, likewise, Henry and George. It seems this too changed because George ended up being Edward's favourite. Was this because Henry and George did't have much in common? I ask this because George is always painted as the suave, debonair, cultivated and itelligent one of the brothers whereas Henry is portrayed as a bit of a fool.

I wonder if anyone has any photographs of a young Prince Henry - I'm just about to start reading his biography by Noble Frankland. I've just had a look at some of the photographs in the book itself and although there are a few ones of him in the 1920's I would be very thankful if someone could share any of theirs. Thankyou.

[Michael II]

I seem to recall that it was HRH the Prince Edward Prince of Wales who helped his brother Prince George overcome his drug addiction.

[Marie-Mathilde]

Yes I've read about Prince George's drug addiction too. Apparently all it took to cure him was a few weeks in the country with his brother the Prince of Wales and Mrs Dudley Ward. I read in another thread (I believe it was on Queen Mary) that the Duke of Gloucester was "problematic" and the Duke of Kent had issues. I think many people are aware of George's issues but I can't find anything remarkably problematic about Henry's behaviour. Perhaps this was a reason the two of them weren't close, if indeed that was the case (I'm guessing). Maybe Prince Henry was more straight laced than his rather wild younger brother, Prince George?

It is a shame that their is little information available on GV's younger children: Mary, Henry and to a certain extent George and John, although these two have had a documentary and a TV film made about them in recent years. I am very interested in all four of them and indeed their better documented brothers, EVIII and GVI.

[alixaannencova]

I thought I heard from somewhere that Harry had a rather strong penchant for booze. I do not know if he was an alcoholic but apparently he really could hoover the stuff up when there was no one around brave enough to remind him of his duty. He had a terrible temper too, I think his carpet chewing was on a par with Bertie's. It may be that these tantrums were alcohol fueled to some extent too. It is just a personal opinion, but I tend to think Alice was an extraordinarily strong woman and that she did much to temper his less appealing traits, and was probably the only person other that Queen Mary who could handle the irascible Harry. Perhaps he did have porphyria.

According to one documentary I saw, Harry was 'bovine' compared to David who was a Philistine, Bertie was devoid of any culture, only Georgie came out well in the general 'cultivated' stakes.

[Marie-Mathilde]

One other question. Was Alice and Henry's marriage a love match? In the George VI bio it says that one of the only times Henry got himself into trouble was in 1928-1929 when he had an affair with the pilot Beryl Monkman and it was rumoured they had a child together although the same book refutes these claims. I think he was also friendly with a Lady Stanley, although which one I can't recall. Was he like his brothers Edward and George who seem to have had countless affairs or was he like Albert who seems only to have been with his wife? (although, you never know and in "Letters from a Prince" Edward writes of Albert's romance with Lady Loughborough, formerly Sheila Crisholme)

A quote from that rather amusing book that I mentioned, "Letters from a Prince" edited by Rupert Godfrey. (I say amusing because the Prince of Wales' noted self pity is truly something to behold):
"Fredie darling beloved one
  It's my 3 brothers who have kept me up so late tonight sweetheart though I'm always using other people as excuses for not going to bed early!!... But I think it's a rather good thing to talk to Harry [Henry] & George about all that, don't you, darling, as of course they are going to get far more chance of getting themselves into trouble than I ever did & they are both very hot by nature!!...[Prophetic words about Prince George who kept bad company and had a drug problem in the late 1920s, which the Prince helped to cure.]"

According to the book Prince Henry was amiable but highly strung, it doesn't mention this oft-repeated aspect of stupidity.
Was Prince Henry ever linked to any royal ladies?
Is there any truth to the story that Prince Henry, in about 1919, came down late for breakfast and before his father had time to issue a rebuke, Henry fainted?

[Marie-Mathilde]

Alixaannencova, might I ask what documentary this was? Thankyou for your reply, I actually had to look up two of the words you mentioned!:

Irascible: Prone to outbursts of temper; easily angered.
             Characterized by or resulting from anger.
Bovine:   Of, relating to, or resembling a ruminant mammal of the genus Bos, such as an ox, cow, or buffalo.
             Sluggish, dull, and stolid.

Doesn't really sound like the Duke of Gloucester's good qualities. Although I have read that he was amiable, jovial and Beryl Monkman found him "excellent company". I think it was 1919 or 1920 that he and Prince Albert attended a house party and he came ac cross far better than poor old Bertie, according to this he impressed everyone with his "normality's" and amused the party with a tale of Queen V's funeral which involved a bird and Princess Beatrice's hat!

[alixaannencova]

The bovine comment came from the documentary ' The Queen's lost Uncle'. It is about Georgie Kent and the comment about Harry is made to reiterate the point that amongst the brothers, Georgie was the clever, cultured one. You can watch it on youtube.

On another note in the documentary 'Monarchy:The royal family at work' there is a very interesting segment with Richard Gloucester. He is seen visiting a school and is quite candid and dare I say a little 'gruff' when talking about 'taking' an interest.' In one scene when children are dancing around a new hall, you can see that the Duke is not entirely interested in the children and is more interested in the dimensions and structure of the hall itself. I tend to think he is becoming more like his father as his gets old in some ways.

[Greenowl]

I read a book a few years ago (well, it must be over ten years ago now) written by a former butler to the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester. Unfortunately I cannot recall the name of the book (or of the former butler). However, it contained a few interesting anecdotes about the Duke in his later years.

[grandduchessella]

On another note in the documentary 'Monarchy:The royal family at work' there is a very interesting segment with Richard Gloucester. He is seen visiting a school and is quite candid and dare I say a little 'gruff' when talking about 'taking' an interest.' In one scene when children are dancing around a new hall, you can see that the Duke is not entirely interested in the children and is more interested in the dimensions and structure of the hall itself. I tend to think he is becoming more like his father as his gets old in some ways.

Well, the Duke is an architect. 

[alixaannencova]

I do understand why he would be more interested in the building because of his own training and proclivities, but what I really found so revealing about his character was the way he was seen almost visibly struggling to appear interested in the children dancing before giving in entirely to turning his attention to the more temptingly interesting design of the roof of the hall during the performance. I believe at one stage the Duke himself more or less admits that sometimes royal duties impel one to 'take an interest' in something one wouldn't otherwise normally find of interest. I get the impression that the present Duke of Gloucester is quite forthright. Perhaps Harry G. came across in the same way too! I only brought up the present Duke's appearance in 'Monarchy:...' as it may be a mild example of how the 'difficult' side of Harry's personality may have been manifested.

[Marie-Mathilde]

I just watched "The Queen's Lost Uncle" and they said that Henry was bovine and a drunken buffoon. They also said that because EVIII abdicated and didn't die that "technically any of the royal brothers could have took his place" - I have heard that there was talk by the smart set that George and Marina should be placed on the throne but I'm sure that this technicality didn't exist, the constitution I'm sure would rule that Albert was the rightful heir. Does anyone agree or disagree?

[Emperor of the Dominions]

I just watched "The Queen's Lost Uncle" and they said that Henry was bovine and a drunken buffoon. They also said that because EVIII abdicated and didn't die that "technically any of the royal brothers could have took his place" - I have heard that there was talk by the smart set that George and Marina should be placed on the throne but I'm sure that this technicality didn't exist, the constitution I'm sure would rule that Albert was the rightful heir. Does anyone agree or disagree?

Agreed!
R.I.

[KarlandZita]

Beautiful portraits of Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester at various ages (from the NPG) :

[joye]

I am looking for photos of his christening,
and also his funeral. please.
Any help would be appreciated.
joye HRH