Author Topic: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent  (Read 283644 times)

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Offline KarlandZita

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #300 on: March 25, 2009, 04:05:07 PM »
Prince George was always very elegant. Like his father King George V and his brother Edward VIII, he was very concerned about his appearance and took great care.

I wonder who he was purchasing and was assigned his tailor if he had one ?
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Eric_Lowe

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #301 on: March 25, 2009, 08:03:52 PM »
I know by a source the place still exists on Saville Row.

Offline KarlandZita

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #302 on: April 12, 2009, 09:05:24 AM »
Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent, at various events during World War II :









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ashdean

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #303 on: April 12, 2009, 03:50:22 PM »
Apparently Marina was the ONLY war widow not to receive a penny. She had to sell off items which included peaces bequeathed to them from Princess Louise of Argyll....
The French furniture left the Duke by his great aunt had not been to his taste anyway.In the later great sale of the Duke of Kents collection 3 paintings by Claude Lorrain were sold..today they alone would have been worth multi millions..

Eric_Lowe

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #304 on: April 12, 2009, 04:13:59 PM »
Had she not needed the cash, she would not have sold it.

alixaannencova

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #305 on: April 12, 2009, 11:50:47 PM »
I personally find this preoccupation with 'poor' Marina having to part with all those lovely trinkets and things rather interesting!

I have never been able to work out why provision was never made to provide for the possibility of widowhood, as all previous brides marrying into the RF were provided for in expectation of such a tragedy! It seems rather odd to me!

Anyway....what I do find rather interesting is that Marina was obviously left with no choice but to eventually part with all those lovely things that Georgie and later she and Georgie had acquired when he was in receipt of that lovely fat annual cheque from parliament! I find it rather interesting that various other branches of the RF managed to jog along on their jointures and stipends that came no where near the 25,000 pounds that Georgie received from after his marriage, or from which Marina should have been able to benefit from provident provision and an eye to the future, after all both must have been aware the she was not provided for, by Parliament. I assume is was 25,000 pounds wasn't it that Georgie received pa from the treasury? Needless to say, Marina's penniless parents had 'little' in the way of settlement to offer Marina when she married, unlike the Buclleuchs, who could have given her sister in law Alice 100,000 pounds down and not really noticed the difference! But that is not relevant when one wonders how the Kents got through their annuity!

What I find interesting is when one thinks about just how lavish their lifestyle must have been in order for Georgie to have failed to leave anything for Marina! I believe he left some capital in trust to his elder children, but nevertheless, this does nothing to detract from the fact that the Kents managed to squander some 144,000 pounds in six years and that is excluding the 150,000 pounds he received in annuities prior his marriage!!!

The perpetual sob story about Marina and her penniless state never has pulled my empathetic heart strings! I appreciate that the burden of taking on Coppins probably made things worse, but they could have sold the place if they had cared too. It was evident that they couldn't really afford to keep up two establishments anyway!

Personally I think the pair of them, Georgie and Marina simply embarked on a brief period together of hedonistically squandering his annuity on the high life, for which she later had to tighten her belt and face the consequence.....not a little unlike many fat cats today....who did likewise in days of prosperity! Marina's tragedy was Georgie's death.....I dare say, had he lived into the nineteen fifties, sixties or seventies they would probably still have lived just as lavishly, as was his propensity, and left little to their children!

Sad as it may have been, that Marina had to part with part of the wonderful collection Georgie inherited, it was not as though she was on the brink of losing her home or worrying about where the next meal was coming from!!! She was jolly well better off then countless cousins even though she was a widow!



« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 12:07:10 AM by Toots »

Eric_Lowe

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #306 on: April 13, 2009, 12:55:32 PM »
I think there is an injustice done to Marina, and I believe that she should be able to collect as any war widow did since her husband did die in a mission for his country (under active duty that is). I don't think they were "fat cats" at all. Prince George loved the arts and never thought he would die so young. It is hard to tell a prince how to spent money (look at what the Duke of Windsor or Prince Charles today). I am sure King George VI fork out something privately for Marina and her kids (as Queen Mary would also have made provisions). Somehow it was not enough.

Offline LadyTudorRose

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #307 on: April 13, 2009, 01:15:25 PM »
I'd imagine they just bought everything they wanted and didn't think about the price tag. Blowing through huge quantities of money is a hobby members of various royal families have enjoyed since Ancient Rome. Perhaps Marina should've been provided for (she was a war widow and was entitled to something for that alone) but she and if she and George had kept more savings and bought less things she wouldn't have had to sell any of her things.







Eric_Lowe

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #308 on: April 13, 2009, 01:22:49 PM »
It is easy to speak in hindsight. Had George not die in the war, his allowance would have continued and there would be no need to economize. His death changed everything. They were the golden couple of the forties, few thought he would die young. Anyway, I think a deal was struck where the family was provided for ( a fund from the royal family). It would look bad if Marina had to go ,like other widows, to the government offices to collect her monthly cheques and ration coupons.

ashdean

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #309 on: April 13, 2009, 01:40:13 PM »
Marina's penniless parents had 'little' in the way of settlement to offer Marina when she married, unlike the Buclleuchs, who could have given her sister in law Alice 100,000 pounds down
. I do not think the Family of the Duchess of Gloucester were as flush as you think.The Duchess was one of seven ....her 4 sisters also had to be provided for and much of the familie immense wealth was tied up in estates and art.
The premature death of the Duchesses father meant that a settement/trust to save the families wealth from heavy death duties fell through and great sales had to be made.

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #310 on: April 13, 2009, 01:51:32 PM »
Hi,

I agree she should have been given a 'War Widow's Allowance' as Prince George was on active duty.  I don't know how that was justified that she not receive one???

I've always liked Marina because she visited GD Olga in Canada many times and corresponded with her often.  I don't know how many other royals bothered with Olga.  Marina has to be credited with that!!

Larry

Eric_Lowe

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #311 on: April 13, 2009, 01:52:36 PM »
I think Alice came with a dowery as well. Her family was much more well off than Marina in terms of assets. I think at the end Barnwell Manor had to be sold too, like Coppins. Also the Kents got some cash and assets from Toria (appart from Coppins) I think.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #312 on: April 13, 2009, 01:55:33 PM »
Yes. Marina got in touch with the "old families" and remain close to them. Not only Olga Alexandrovna, but also Baby Bee (Infanta Beatrice of Borbon, Duchess of Galleria). She made a few trips to visit Bee in Spain.

Offline TampaBay

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #313 on: April 13, 2009, 09:18:10 PM »

Yes. Marina got in touch with the "old families" and remain close to them. Not only Olga Alexandrovna, but also Baby Bee (Infanta Beatrice of Borbon, Duchess of Galleria). She made a few trips to visit Bee in Spain.


All related to Marina via Romanov Russia.  They were all first cousins once removed:

Alexander II ---Alexander III ---Olga

Alexander II ---Marie ---Baby Bee

Alexander II ---Vladamir ---Helen ---Marina

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"Fashion is so rarely great art that if we cannot appreciate great trash, we should stop going to the mall.

alixaannencova

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent
« Reply #314 on: April 21, 2009, 10:59:26 PM »
I am not certain of the exact amount of money which Lady Alice Montagu Douglas Scott brought into her marriage to Harry Gloucester, but based on the data that estimates that the Buccleuch family is presently valued at around 720,000,000 pounds of which the Alice's nephew, the 9th Duke held just under half, it is safe to say that the Buccleuchs were far better placed to provide for their daughter than Prince and Princess Nicholas were. I believe that when the King of Greece was receiving a paltry privy purse annuity of 52,000 pounds pa in 1905, Lady Alice's father was receiving about 232,000 pounds gross from his landed interests alone. The Buccleuch holdings have contracted by nearly a half since the 1880s yet they still remain one of Europe's largest private landowning dynasty to this day.
 
 It is also useful to know that apart from Drumlanrig Castle the Buccleuchs still own a Palace near Edinburgh (presently leased to the University of Wisconsin), a 100 room mansion in the borders and another mansion in Northamptonshire. I was also under the impression that Barnwell was actually given to Alice and Harry along with its estate as a wedding present. It was generally the custom in bygone days for aristocrats to settle amounts on younger children either out of capital or raised in the form of charges against family property. Generally sons received an annuity such as that received by Lord Randolph Churchill, who had about 1,500 a year from his relatively 'hard up' father. Daughters generally received the interest from lump sums placed into trusts. The amount of such a trust was often relative to the status of her father. For example a Duke may have been expected to provide his daughters with trusts of at least 15,000 pounds to 20,000 pounds, Marquesses a little less, Earls less still and so on! In the case of the Buccleuchs, the hazards of having lots of children obviously would put pressure on family finances. Death duties would have been a problem too, but like many landed dynasties of the period, the hub of the Buccleuch estates and their assets, had already been transferred to ownership of a limited company, set up in 1923 to specifically avoid the horrific consequence of death duties. It was nevertheless a simple procedure to issue dividend bearing shares for life to younger children at the discretion of the board of such limited companies. This proved a favoured method of providing for younger children when taking out mortgages against family owned assets in the hands of trustees, in order to do likewise proved unnecessary and cumbersome to effect.   
 
 I thought that the establishment of the Buccleuch Estates Company in 1923 went some way to protect such assets and generally duties were tolerable and payable on 'personal' estates by successive Dukes. As an idea of 'personal' estate valued at the time of probate examples may prove useful to see how wealthy the Buccleuchs were and remain. In 1884 the personal estate of the 5th Duke of Buccleuch and excluding all 'entailed' property was valued at 910,000 pounds and that of the 9th Duke proved in 2004 valued his personal estate at 320,000,000 pounds and did not include a further 400,000,000 pounds worth of assets held by various trusts under the umbrella of the Buccleuch Group. The Leonardo stolen from Drumlanrig and since recovered, is valued at 50,000,000 pounds alone, though heaven knows how much it would realize if it ever came up for auction.

All this is quite fascinating when compared to the relative 'small fry' financial status of Marina's parents. Even when the Greek monarchy was restored under George II, I hardly think Prince Nicholas' fortune could ever have come anywhere near that of Alice Gloucester's family! As an aside I could provide oodles of data on the Buccleuchs on the 'Dukes of the realms...' topic thread on the 'The World and their Culture' thread if there is enough interest?

Marina's penniless parents had 'little' in the way of settlement to offer Marina when she married, unlike the Buclleuchs, who could have given her sister in law Alice 100,000 pounds down
. I do not think the Family of the Duchess of Gloucester were as flush as you think.The Duchess was one of seven ....her 4 sisters also had to be provided for and much of the familie immense wealth was tied up in estates and art.
The premature death of the Duchesses father meant that a settement/trust to save the families wealth from heavy death duties fell through and great sales had to be made.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 11:10:16 PM by Toots »