The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?

[Jane]

rskkiya,

to "bust one's chops" is an American slang expression (more commonly used on the East Coast) meaning to engage in an affectionate and informal teasing of another person.  It is usually quite lightheard.  Also, it can be used to denote nagging (again, usually of an affectionate and lighthearted exaspertion manner)

Jane

[rskkiya]

Thanks Jane and Pushkina,

Sorry Sometimes American common phrases just never sink in...Although I would guess that very few people in America use terms such as "Carrying coal to Newcastle"

LOL...
Rskkiya.

[Jane]

Glad to help, kitty cat.    

Maybe you can share with me what "Carrying coal to Newcastle" means?  I've been there, and I even root for Newcastle FC if I see a Premiership game, but you've stumped me on that one.

Jane

[rskkiya]

Newcastle used to have the largest coal mines in the  old empire-- so "carrying" any there suggests a state of foolish disorganisation or extream ignorance. LOL

Rskkiya

[Jane]

Thanks Rskkiya!  I'll have to work that one into conversation soon!  

[pushkina]

it's kind  of like "selling ice to eskimos" another useless, wasteful and very stupid activity.

[rskkiya]

Pushkina
Perfect!
R.

[MariaR]

I've just finished reading Virginia Cowles book The Last Czar~ alas I"ve taken it back to the library~but I want to say it was around pg 140 or so that she mentioned that OTMA were seemlingly socially deprived. I distictly remember that VC felt  it was because of Alix. Alix being more of a practical bent who did not care for the frivlous court life. This was mentioned several time in the book.
Does anyone have the book to double check my facts?

Meanwhile, while I've done very little reading on OTMA I've NEVER gotton the impression they felt deprived or where seen as deprived at the time.

Those of you who are more well versed in things OTMA/Alix could you let me know what you think?

MariaR

[Lanie]

This is just my opinion but...they certainly were.  They were kept from having much social interaction therefore they grew up very immature although I think in an odd way the war helped since the older girls got to nurse and talk to 'normal' girls their age, etcetera.  Though Alix had good intentions she did keep her daughters pretty much in a closed order, so to speak--they didn't have friends, didn't socialize much even with relatives, etc.  I'm sure in some ways they did feel deprived, and knew they were, socially since the war had allowed them to come in contact with a greater number of people and they realized what they'd been missing (esp. Olga and Tatiana who both desperately wanted friends their own age who weren't their sisters or their mother's older ladies in waiting).

[otmafan]

I agree Lanie. They barely had contact with the "outside world" at all. Except for the Standart officers and family (rarely), they weren't allowed to experience what they might have wanted.

[bookworm857158367]

I think they were most definitely deprived of a normal social life -- normal in terms of what was normal for other princesses of their station in life, not just what was normal for any teenage girl. Really, what teenager wants to spend all her time with her sisters and extended family? These were bright, healthy girls who, from their own letters and the accounts of others about them, seemed to have wanted friends, the opportunity to fall in love, to take part in life.

I think Alexandra was really not "all there" towards the end of her life and it affected her daughters and son. She was a religious fanatic and seems to have been somewhat unbalanced emotionally and mentally.

[RichC]

I think it is unfair to place too much blame on Alexandra's shoulders.  I mean, Nicholas was their father; didn't he have a say?  He should have spoken up!  Yeah, I know, everyone says he always gave in to what Alexandra wanted, but that's beside the point.  He was their father.  But the blame is always directed at her.

I suspect that, while the children were isolated because of who they were, a lot of this stuff about being deprived was exaggerated by people who blamed Alexandra for the fall of the monarchy, revolution, etc.  They wrote lots of negative things about her after the revolution including that she was a bad mother who made her children unhappy.  Let's compare her to Xenia, who allowed her only daughter, 18 at the time, to marry a sleazy guy like Felix Youssopov.  Alexandra would never have allowed that and she told Xenia so before the marriage took place.

In any case, despite the attacks, the prevailing view has long been that N and A were good parents to their children.  I don't think that view will change much in the future because, I suspect, it's correct.

[Lanie]

Nicholas seemed not to have a lot of say in the upbringing of the girls.  He didn't spend a lot of time with them since he was always so busy; Alix was the one who watched over the girls, etc.  They were good parents in a lot of ways and bad parents in a lot of ways.  They weren't perfect like a lot of people tend to believe...nor were they distant and ignored their children (though it seems to me Alix did ignore OTMA to an extent, but I guess one could understand that with Alexei and her being ill all the time).

And with Felix and Irina...from what I understand, Irina WANTED to marry him!

[Belochka]

From our modern perspective, we would consider that OTMA were somewhat deprived of friendships with girls of their own age. However it must be remembered that these were not ordinary girls. They were members of the first family of Russia.

The Russian aristocracy did not spend a great deal of time with their children. To meet at dinner was considered quite normal interaction. Nanyi looked after the children, while tutors were employed for their education. The lucky few girls attended the Smolni Institute, while the boys by the age of twelve or so were sent off to live-in military schools.

OTMA actually fared better than most. Due to their isolation, they actually spend more time in their parent's presence then was customary. They got to know their parents!

With the Japanese War, revolutionary assassinations and then the start of WWI, the family had to be kept isolated for their own protection.

[Sarai_Porretta]

MariaR,
There is more on the isolation of the children on this thread:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=family;action=display;num=1078161157